I honestly don't mean to start a flame war but...
Have you ever really sat down and thought about how and why Indians, Arabs and Koreans can so easily start up their own small businesses here in America while natural born citizens are routinely given the shaft in regards to business loans?
Ever wonder why every single last Dunkin' Donuts is ran by an Indian family? How did this happen? I'm sure there are many unemployed Americans who would love to be able to have their own Dunkin' Donuts franchise store.
My local deli/bodega is ran by a nice man from Yemen. He's been here for 10 years. He lives in a nice two bedroom apartment in Brooklyn. He supports a stay-at-home wife and a newborn and owns a Chevy Tahoe. He lives a very comfortable life, all because he owns his own small business.
I don't see any American born citizens owning delis. I'm sure plenty would like to if they didn't get denied loans.
Is it that our government is giving them tax breaks? Do they get fast track loans? Does anyone know the answer?
In many cases they do not go to the govt for loans.\
There are often groups of people here and back home who help immigrants with free loans. You got it, no interest loans to begin a business. \
The fact that there is no interest increases the chance of success, allows them to pay it back and ultimately put forth in the fun to help the next wave of immigrants. \
Many groups do this.\
Americans of course do not help each other, we compete against each other and only loan for profit.
Because certain professionals in the US look down on this type of activity. I remember asking a journalist friend of mine that if she liked cooking so much and being a host, why didn''t she set up her own restaurant or ''deli place''. She laughed in my face...derisively.
"There are often groups of people here and back home who help immigrants with free loans. You got it, no interest loans to begin a business. "%0D\
No interest doesn''t mean no obligation. If someone gets a loan from the extended family, from then on he''s obligated to help everyone in the extended family, with loans, gifts, immigration sponsorship, help with marriages, etc. %0D\
There''s a reason Americans prefer to go to the banks, because it''s so much easier to pay them back.
That''s odd, r2. I thought the "American Dream" is to own your own business.\
I think the average American would like the idea of owning a business but are too lazy to deal with the realities of daily management. Plus people get comfortable working for someone else. When you are your own boss everything depends on you.
These immigrants aren''t taking out the sort of business loans an American would apply for. It''s rather endearing that OP doesn''t understand that.
[quote]I thought the "American Dream" is to own your own business.\
The "American Dream" is to own property and be upper-class. The upper classes don''t work in "trade."
R4 America is changing a lot, in fact western countries are changing a lot. They''re becoming complacent and lazy
Why did G-d create Gentiles?%0D\
Someone has to pay retail.
Actually, what I''ve always understood is that the different models of electronics made exclusively for Walmart have *fewer* features and are thus cheaper. They also might be made with a plastic doohickey here and there where the model sold elsewhere might have a metal doohickey.
[quote]If someone gets a loan from the extended family, from then on he''s obligated to help everyone in the extended family, with loans, gifts, immigration sponsorship, help with marriages, etc. \
Who said a word about extended family, not me. \
The loans are from societies, largely comprised of previous generations of immigrants. There is a Somolian free loan society in New York, a Yemeni free loan society, a general Muslim free loan society etc. \
This is not extended family (though some may be related) it is from others who have achieved success. \
At one point I worked for a Korean family who began this way. They had a very large wine and liquor store and helped others build on the same business model in other neighborhoods. \
People working together can accomplish a lot. Americans compete more than they work together.
The ones who get a foothold share their knowledge (and their profits) with others in the same family/ethnic group. But they do what people who run small businesses do: work constantly, long hours, few holidays, and put everything back into the business. All the kids work in the business, everybody pitches in. It''s not easy.\
"Natural born citizens" could (and can) do the same thing: getting money from family members or community organizations. For that matter, maybe the ones who are running the Dunkin Donuts or veggie stand ARE natural born citizens...who happen to be members of a tight-knit family or ethnic group.\
When I read about people complaining how a particular ethnic group has lawyers/pros who know the welfare system inside and out getting every conceivable benefit, I think: so then why don''t YOU do the same thing? If the system can be gamed, rather than saying "I don''t have mine," why don''t you go get yours?
(And yes, OP, I think you do want to start a flame war).
^^ Wrong thread! Please disregard.
[quote] But they do what people who run small businesses do: work constantly, long hours, few holidays, and put everything back into the business. All the kids work in the business, everybody pitches in. It''s not easy.\
We have a winner!!\
I have heard so many Americans (yes, Black and White) bitch about foreigners getting some sort of "upper hand" when starting their own businesses. They don''t see the mother and father working 7 days a week for 10 to 12 hours a day, with the kids helping on weekends.\
Most Americans just aren''t willing to work that hard.
Been there, done that...
r13, I honestly didn''t. I''ve been curious about it for a while now. I''m friendly with the Yemeni man who owns my local deli but I would never ask him such a personal question.\
Does Dunkin'' Donuts have some sort of deal with Indians though? I''ve never seen anyone other than Indians working at that store, no matter where in the country it''s in.
You can also start a retail store with very limited language skills.\
There''s the old story about the Chinese family who moved to Chicago and opened a laundry. After 20 years in business they had learned fluent Polish.
OP R16 you need to get out more. \
There are many non Indian Dunkin Donuts places and many owned by Indians. \
When a person from a group achieves success with a franchise they often sponsor others from the same ethnic group. \
Dunkin Donuts does not seek, nor make special deals with any particular group.
To add to R18...%0D\
OP, it''s mighty ignorant of you to assume that someone is a "foreigner" based on looking at the color of their skin.%0D\
Many 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation AMERICANS have roots in all countries of the world.%0D\
Back to 9th Grade social studies class for you!
The last line of this Onion article explains it all.
I own several units of a franchise business (no, not DD) and, yes, there are many Indians in our business as well. It is not my impression that they're getting loans, but rather that they are wealthy and have cash. That's how they get a jump on everyone else. I don't know where the money comes from, but I do know that many have been able to out-bid "Americans" because they have cash in hand to purchase or build their units. %0D
And yes, owning your own business is A LOT of work. I find many of my peers have the expectation that because they bought into a franchise it should run itself while they go and play golf. Not so. Even if you have on-site management, you have to be actively involved in the business or it will fail.%0D
BTW--the average DD is over a million dollars. It's not easy to get that kind of financing these days. In many areas you have to commit to purchasing multiple units and they won't let you become a franchisee unless you already have prior franchising experience. Not just any schmo can get a Dunkin' Donut franchise. It's very competitive because it's a homerun almost every time.
Many white Americans think it''s low class for their children to work. A true status symbol for them is a kid who "concentrates on school" while the parents pay for their car, apartment etc. I own my own business and I often take heavy purchases to the car only to be greeted by some sour faced teen, too lazy to come in to help their mom. Most families would fall apart if they had to spend 8-15 additional hours a day in a stressful work environment.\
Black Americans have had their family units busted apart first by slavery and then by the new slavery, the Prison Industrial Complex. Add to that it was illegal for them to read or meet together anywhere but church and you''ll have a bit of a stumbling block to overcome. \
This of course isn''t the rule, I own my own business and it''s just me and my family who work there and next door there is a wonderful black owned family restaurant.
OP, I will take you at your word that you weren''t trolling. But why would you ever have the odd notion that the government would be giving special breaks to immigrants to buy businesses? Or that non-citizens might receive preferential treatment over citizens?
R21 Ramada Inn or Travelodge?
"But why would you ever have the odd notion that the government would be giving special breaks to immigrants to buy businesses?"%0D\
Some idiots believe that. Some real dumbasses types think there''s some giant conspiracy to give foreigners money and keep white Americans poor, and others openly wonder why all these immigrants can afford to open their own businesses. If the OP doesn''t actually believe that, he''s probably heard someone else say so.
It is family money, not bank money.
"I''m climbing in yo windows, I''m snatching your people up..."
The Prison Industrial Complex
OP, too many Americans are too entitled or too lazy to do the hard work necessary. Or they''re just too ignorant.%0D\
You sound like a closet racist.%0D\
Wasn''t this conversation thoroughy hashed out in "Do the Right Thing"?
Sweet Dick Willie
Actually, many immigrant groups were eligible for low interest loans -- a boon to those poorer folk who resettled here due to war in their home countries. In my town, a lot of Lebanese people displaced by the civil war in the 80s were able to move here and buy gas stations with the help of these loans -- money not available from their families because often, their assets had been destroyed.
[quote]Why did G-d create Gentiles? Someone has to pay retail.%0D\
Mrs. Dr. Barry Weiss, DDS, Great Neck, Long Island
Isn''t charging interest on a loan against Islam? They consider it usery and it is a sin. So they get no-interest loans.
I own my own small business, which I started with my business partner after 15 years in a corporate job. Many of the people I know prefer to work for large companies or for other people. I have friends in the same profession who''ve tried to start their own business, but just didn''t have the drive or the desire to handle all the small details. They keep falling back to working for someone else, because it is their comfort zone.\
A lot of it is also networking, and immigrants might not have those connections, at least not right away. \
I also think that, though it''s still a lot of work, buying into a franchise is not the same as starting your own business. In some ways you do work for a bigger concern.
Sorry, by "a lot of it is also networking" I mean connecting for work in corporate jobs. Should have clarified.
[quote]I honestly don''t mean to start a flame war but...\
You''re a lying liar who lies.
You''ll get cancer.
R33, it''s an upfront or backend fee vice interest. Profits are to be had in loaning money, even for Muslims.%0D\
[quote]I think the average American would like the idea of owning a business but are too lazy to deal with the realities of daily management. Plus people get comfortable working for someone else. When you are your own boss everything depends on you.\
If everybody owned a business, who would work for the business owners? The economy needs more employees than it does owners. \
Your idea that most people secretly dream of owning and operating a business is also sort of baffling.
Immigrants see nothing wrong in nationality discrimination in favor of each other. If one gets a job in a bank, he will staff his department with co-nationals and lend to co-nationals. It''s like Hollywood and the Brits and Canadians. You really think there aren''t any Americans as "talented" as Tom Green? It''s also why religious groups that discriminate (e.g., the Mormons) are so successful.%0D\
It''s all about getting together and being organized in a community. Americans are poor at that because of a fifty year propaganda war against all organizational life by the rich who would keep us all indebted and starving.%0D
A lot of Chinese immigrants get money from rich relatives back home or they get it from within their community and they put their entire extended family to work for them 24/7. If you enter a Chinese restaurant and see kids in the kitchen, it''s probably family owned and their kids take shifts.
YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!
There was a story in the Washington Post and I believe in Time or Newsweek about how it''s done. The articles were talking about the Korean system (it has a name but can''t remember it). A group of people get together and put all their money together and one gets the money to open a business, when he has enough money, the next person is then given the money to open his business and it goes on from there. It''s part of their culture. \
The Washington Post article mentioned how these people basically sleep in their shops and work like dogs, they sacrifice to get these businesses up and running and their families work in there. They do a lot of things Americans wouldn''t do, most Americans don''t have that "hunger" to work that hard. I know I don''t, I admit. As someone else mentioned when you own your own business there are no days off, no vacations, etc.\
The immigrants are what Americans used to be, people who were willing to sacrifice for there families future. Americans want everything now.
You see, most Americans have a problem with this thing called, SAVING MONEY. It''s why most of you are fucked right now, anyways!
We just love America overseas
Businesses owned and run by immigrant families are not a new phenomenon and people complaining about immigrants taking jobs for real Americans is not new either. Many immigrant group have started businesses run by their families, Italians, Greeks,Russians, and with each new wave of immigrants, there has always been a backlash. Within a couple of generations the kids don''t want to work the hours that their parents and grandparents did, and the parents want their kids to become professionals, so the business is sold, usually to the next wave of immigrants.
For one, foreigners who come here are not afraid of working 70+ hours a week.
R30, the same kind of loans have been available to everyone (not just immigrants) from the U.S. Small Business Administration since the Eisenhower era.
Many people from foreign countries who come to America and start businesses do so because they save and save and save. I've known of a few who came here and for many years lived with only the barest of necessities, choosing instead to put every dime they could scrape together in the bank for the day they could get enough money together to start a small business. Plus many of these people only employ their own family members who all live together so they save a great deal of money on employee costs.
Face it, many people from foreign countries are simply willing to do things and go through years of pain and discomfort in order to have something better one day. Not many Americans are willing to do things that way. Too many Americans want everything handed to them on a silver platter and they don't have the sense to plan adequately or make sure they have enough money available when they start a business. And then after they've started a business they spend like drunkards before they have even turned a profit.
In other words, too many Americans are complete dumb asses in business matters.
What R28 said: "too many Americans are too entitled or too lazy to do the hard work necessary. Or they''re just too ignorant."\
They''re also too fat. They couldn''t spend 12 or more hours on their feet actually working. They''d rather spend the same hours watching reality TV and eating the donuts they bought from enterprising immigrants.
Americans aren''t lazy because they don''t want to work 70 hours a week (although many, in formerly less stressful jobs, are doing exactly that in these days of hyper-capitalism), they are a culture that believes there is more to life than work and scrambling after pennies in the dirt.\
The US was lucky in that it had plenty of resources and then grabbed all the goodies after WW2 so it could foster the idea of leisure even in its working classes. That has all disappeared since 1880.
OP: I wonder how much that shop owner from Yemen sees that wife and baby? Ever notice that these business owners are ALWAYS in their shops? I think the guy down at my corner store sleeps in his store. I can''t imagine that kind of life; literally living for your job.
If white people only make loans among themselves and only hire themselves it''s called racism.
Sometimes capital to buy franchises is directed (limited) to certain groups.\
In order to buy a franchise, many would-be entrepreneurs have to put down some money (~20k-200K) and get the rest financed, either through a bank or the franchisor. The easiest way is through the franchisor.\
True story: my white, gay bff was thinking of buying into a convenience store that sounds like Leaven Heaven. They told him in the screening process that they *prefer* to lend to Indians, Pakistanis and South Asians rather than whites. \
When he went over to a competitor franchise to ask about it, they told him it was common knowledge in the industry (including @ some donut franchises) that they will award a franchise to those groups over whites and hispanics because they can charge them higher financing rates and fees and they''ll pay it.
They borrow from the mob.
i.m tired of the government giving these foreigners our hard earned tax dollars to buy up our gas stations and they won.t loan a american a dollar. When are we going to get those idiots out of Washington? The government is sending our jobs overseas and letting the foreigners take over in the US.And they wonder why i don,t vote anymore.Eric
A lot of immigrants have extended families helping with the financials.
That's OK, R53, we won't miss your vote.
Rich people migrate to the USA too ya know
Money has never been easier to get R53. The banks are giving it away. Start your own business. Work 75+ hours a week, no holidays, no vacations, no sick days. In about 4 or 5 years, find someone you trust not to rob you blind to fill in for you so you don't burn out. Worry about your baby when you're not there. Enjoy! Oh and get someone else to fill out your application, you ignorant fuck.
From what I've seen in my extended family: they moved to a new country and took factory jobs (this was in the 70/80's when there were still good factory jobs) and worked hard. Really hard, taking on lots of overtime and/or working graveyard shifts for higher pay.
They lived together (up until age 9, I lived with my four uncles, my aunt, my aunt in law, my grandmother, mom and brother in a 4 bedroom house) saving money on mortgage/rent. They then had savings to buy multiple homes and small businesses. For many years, they worked 7 days a week running their businesses, even though they had small children. My uncle's wife only recently cut back to 6 days at her hair salon and she has two boys. Grandparents usually live with their children and provide free house and childcare for the grandkids.
Thirty to thirty-five years after they fled our homeland, my uncles and their cousins own their own homes, rent out others, some own businesses and all have investments. Most of them are high school graduates (it's their kids who are the first college grads) and live and look typically lower middle class. They don't have single flash thing about them. They worked hard, made a lot of sacrifices and saved.
Unfortunately, my mom, who worked hard but had zero business sense and made the decision to move away from the extended family unit, was the exception. We were poor through and through.
The group mentality is important. My uncles probably couldn't have done it on their own, but pooling their resources together really helped. They were essentially each other's banks. Yes, there are downsides of course. Lots of family spats exacerbated by the issue of money and rivalry. At the end of the day though, they've stuck together and when needed, they would bail each other out.
Me? I'm too Americanized. I struck out on my own. My closest relative is 3,000 miles away and the only thing I've owned in my life is a car (I did pay cash for it!). I'm nearly 40 years old and I still rent. I still have huge student loans. I'm also the most educated (I have a MS) and have always had the cushy "white collar" jobs. Yet each of my HS educated uncles could probably buy out my life in cash...
[quote]Have you ever really sat down and thought about how and why Indians, Arabs and Koreans can so easily start up their own small businesses here in America while natural born citizens are routinely given the shaft in regards to business loans?
The Loonies of the weekend are out EARLY I see.
They don't take loans from American banks. They get loans from business associations and their own banks.
My friend married a Korean MD whose father was also an MD. His father was on the board of some private Korean bank which called itself a "business association." They gave out very low interest loans to other Koreans. Funnily enough, they were Catholic and gave loans out to other Catholics. Most Asians in the NY area become Methodists, Presbyterians or Lutherans.
My aunt had 8 kids and a drunken husband. All Americans. Very poor. There was a restaurant within walking distance. The owners lived upstairs. My male cousins had paper routes at age 10. The restaurant owners lived above the restaurant and when my cousins would collect money for the newspapers the owners could see they were pretty raggy looking, so they said, "If you want to make some money, we could use someone to mow our lawn, rake our leaves, clean the parking lot (this was when parking lots were still allowed to be made of dirt, not tar) and shovel snow."
They did that until they were 14 and were allowed to have working papers. That's when they became dishwashers at the restaurant. At 16, they were busboys. One became the maitre d'hôtel, the others became assistant chefs, then chefs. They all opened their own businesses -- a restaurant, a deli, a catering business and a wedding hall.
They worked like dogs all of their lives. Only one of them had a kid. Their wives all worked in the business with them. They are the only native born Americans I know who own these kinds of businesses and who work the way they do. They take one day off per week and award themselves a two week vacation in winter. None of them are what you would call wealthy. They do OK.
They all employ illegals in their kitchens because they can't find Americans who will work there. They won't hire American teenagers at all because they call in sick every weekend so they can hang out with their friends, or because they had a fight with their girlfriend. They prefer single moms as waitresses because they need the money and will show up every day while other American women won't.
R41=typical American racist against American poor.
I'd say 99% of these business involved some type of fraudulent misrepresentation. None of these people have the cash they claim to have, and they aren't investigated, just as most foreign students entering American universities aren't investigated either, so we get tons of them who just made up their resume. They just forge whatever documents they need, and once they are in position, they make it a system that their fellow immigrants follow.
My partner's father Ben is 85 years old. His parents owned a bakery. They were Russian Jews who kept kosher. Ben tells all these stories about growing up on the streets of Brooklyn -- and I mean "the streets" of Brooklyn. His parents worked day and night in the shop while he and his brothers wandered all over the neighborhood. Ben was boxing for money when he was 11 years old. We wre shocked. "Why did your parents let you do that?"
He said, "They didn't know! They never came out of the shop. We ate breakfast and left the house and didn't go back until dinner and bedtime."
He and his brothers never speak of their parents. Nothing about their personalities, nothing endearing about them, I asked, "Ben what was your mother like?" He said, "She was very short. She did everything for us. Made the beds, cooked the food, cleaned, got our clothes." I said, "Those are chores. What was she like personality-wise?" and he said, "You know, I have no idea. I never really thought about it before, but that's really all that I know about her."
Because she was just a drudge who worked and worked and worked. That's what immigrant shopkeepers are like. Their kids don't really expect much affection or advice or intimate family life from them.
British guy here. I visited NYC recently and was amazed at the amount of people who were working, owned places, etc who only spoke really minimal English. But I've had friends who've looked into moving to the US and it's a real nightmare to get a visa. How do all these people get over, stay, and work/run places?
They get start-up cash from their criminal overlords -- a lot of them are laundering money for either criminals overseas in their home countries, or for domestic crime organizations, mostly drug money. It's not just the big banks that are involved in money laundering.
I come to Americano 2 years ago as rentboy from Turkey still work as rentboy for fuck time
Imagine if gay people could give each other that type of support.
Mormons function as lending banks to each other through the church....
[quote]There was a story in the Washington Post and I believe in Time or Newsweek about how it's done. The articles were talking about the Korean system (it has a name but can't remember it). A group of people get together and put all their money together and one gets the money to open a business, when he has enough money, the next person is then given the money to open his business and it goes on from there. It's part of their culture.
if white people do that it's called racism. Only mormons get away with this kind of thing. Minorities actually have some advantage in that respect. The institutions of the greater society must bend over backwards to accommodate and even promote immigrant groups while those groups are free to discriminate against others and help only their own.
There's undoubtedly all sorts of financial shadiness going on as well. Those loan groups mentioned above probably enable one member to get a very large loan or mortgage based on money shifted into his name by the others. Then there's the "anything for a government check" scams such as "employing" relatives and friends only to allow them to qualify for unemployment insurance, faking ages to get seniors benefits, etc.
Coz Americans are waiting for Obama to give them free money so that they can buy new Nike limited edition or iPhone5
[quote]I honestly don't mean to start a flame war
Of course you did OP.
I'd love to see gay people get together and support one another in business the way other minority groups do. Sadly, I know it will never happen.
Tell you what I know first hand. When I was in college, I had the opportunity to work on the line at an automobile plant. This was 37 years ago. (I'm in my mid 50's.)
There were a lot of Arab guys at the plant, times were good and they were hired, a few could barely speak English.
My foreman told us, these guys all live together in a small one bedroom apartment or flat, we're talking 8-10 guys, like a dormitory, and they send every available dime home to help their families, and hold some aside here to help one of them start a business.
That was their plan, their custom. Sometimes they would get money from home to start a business and have to repay it. But they all reached back and helped one another and pooled resources and inconvenienced themselves and they worked their asses off.
They "took turns" getting up the ladder. This to my observation, is true of Koreans, Arabs, Indians, etc. It used to be true of the Italians and the Irish here way back in the day, but that's how it worked for them, when I was in college.
I've often wondered about this. They say nine out of ten small business fail within X amount of years...yet somehow these NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING foreigners come over here and are able to stay in business? Something is mighty strange about that. If I went over to their country and attempted to run a business without knowing their language, laws, culture, etc I'd fail miserably.
I've told this story a million times here, but my friend started off as a dishwasher in NYC the day he got here. He had nothing to his name. He now owns three restaurants. How? HARD FUCKING WORK. Three jobs, bought nothing for himself, saved every dime, and applied for loans when he was eligible to.
No, he did not speak English when he got here. Just a few words.
Yes, he does now, and he's an American citizen.
The nail salon near me is the same way. They have several of them, and a van pulls up and they pile out every morning, 6 days a week, for 12 hours a day. They make what they make - no minimum, no union, no office bullshit like collecting for gifts and the like. They wear pretty crappy clothes.
We're fat, lazy, and spoiled in this country. We want everything handed to us. We want our fun and our cars and our iPads. These people don't care about this shit. Stop trashing people who work hard. Stop being a fucking racist.
If you want this for yourself, go out and get it. There's no trick to it.
My great grandfather on my father's side came here from Ireland at 13 and went to work in a rug factory in Yonkers. Yes, at 13. I went to work at the same age taking pizza orders at a family friend restaurant, then moved up to busing tables. My maternal great grandmother never learned English but came here from Russia and worked as a seamstress until the day she died at age 89.
God forbid people should have to work in this country. We try to find every conceivable way to get out of working and ask for more and more money.
I'm almost 50 now, have a soul-sucking corporate job, and I wish I had been more like my Dad, who always wanted to work, even if it was just bagging groceries for a couple of hours a day when he was in his 80s.
We NEED a Great Depression in this country to wake people up.
[quote]We NEED a Great Depression in this country to wake people up.
It's true. I think it will happen, it was falsely diverted with the "welfare handout to the banks", and of course, half of it was misused, stolen and line rich execs pockets.
I don't want to live through a rough time, yet I know that it is the best thing in the long run. Most people in the USA have no idea what The Freedoms are really about.
[quote]We're fat, lazy, and spoiled in this country. Stop trashing people who work hard. God forbid people should have to work in this country.
Last I checked, Americans have among the fewest number of vacation days per year of any country on earth. So it certainly SEEMS like we're working hard!
1) Postive discrimination towards others of their race. It can be very wrong (Indians hiring only fellow Indians for high paying IT roles) but it's human nature.
2) Adhering to the law only when necessay and skirting it otherwise. Unlike Anericans they come from societies with no proper rule of law or where it local officials make it so oppressive bribery and avoidance are the mode and simple eaking out an existence the daily rule. So they're brought up with no concept of respecting it, and that makes them happier to ride over it to their advantage.
3) Working like dogs. Quality of life is a meaningless concept for them when their previous life has been an endless fight just to eat. Life isn't meant to be a party or even happy. It's meant to be a struggle where Death eventually wins.
All the gas stations in LA seem to be owned by people from the middle east. It turns out, most got low intterest loans not available to Americans to build or buy these businesses.
Also note how many "small businesses" are actually franchaises -- most Americans will not put up with such bullshit but immigrants will.
To a point.
Right now in NJ, a bunch of gas station owners (all immigrants) are protesting the pricing schedule of the oil company whose gas they sell. If their stations are on busy corners and get a lot of traffic, they buy their gas at a cheaper price than those stations in quiet neighborhoods that most exist to serve the community.
Many here have complained that some Americans refuse to work hard -- what they refuse is to enter in the quasi-serfdom that is, for example, 7-11.
Even if they manage to build independent stores, many are stuck in contentious relationships with suppliers of, say, cigarettes and liquor. Of their 16 hour work days, many are spending 12 battling for air in their supply chain...
[quote]The nail salon near me is the same way. They have several of them, and a van pulls up and they pile out every morning, 6 days a week, for 12 hours a day. They make what they make - no minimum, no union, no office bullshit like collecting for gifts and the like. They wear pretty crappy clothes.
So that's your idea of a good way of life? We should become like those shithole countries? And how the frig do you know they don't collect for gifts?
You sound like a total cunt/talk-radio listener.
One time I was sitting at the computer at the job I had, chatting with my coworker sitting at the computer next to me. He was Hispanic, I'm white. We were both doing the same job and during the discussion found out we both got the same education but at different colleges.
He told me that because of his Hispanic heritage, he got a government grant that paid for his college. I only qualified for a government loan that took 15 years to pay off. He graduated debt free.
We ended up with the same job, but I was the only one to have 15 years of school payments to make for the same training.
Well here's the thing. Yes, the life is hard, but one thing that keeps re-occurring in the anecdotes in this thread is that no matter whether your American or foreign, you work hard.
You make huge sacrifices, and you experience a lot of privation. Sometimes you get rich, but most often you are "comfortable." and that varies by your definition.
The most important thing to note is that no matter who these people are, they have decided to be in charge of their own fate. They don't work for someone else who can destroy their lives on a whim.
Maybe they will fail, but they are in charge of themselves. For some people that is more important. That is their definition of sucess. They control their own lives, or believe they do.
[quote]They don't work for someone else who can destroy their lives on a whim.
Yet, so many do -- via franchises.
Is that you, Oprah, honey/r81? Bring me some fries if you're coming back to bed, kay?
We have an anti-franchise troll now!
In my area, white Americans are not allowed to live 20-30 people in a small house. It is a violation of zoning laws and you can bet your ass they would be fined until they comply with the zoning laws. Yet brown skinned people, whether Mexican or Indian, are allowed to live this way and the authorities don't do a thing about it. They don't want to be called racist.
Meanwhile you always see these fires on the news that take place in overcrowded immigrant housing during winter. Sometimes it's a knocked over kerosene heater, sometimes it's overloaded wiring. People die in those houses and nobody does anything about it.
Yes, who wouldn't want the luxury of living 15 to a bedroom?
Boy, those brown people have it made.
My new drag name: Fran Chaise!
15 people who had burritos for dinner! Nighty night.
Can't wait to see your big box, R87.
R65 is the only person with real knowledge on this thread. Organized crime finances a lot of these place and throws in additional perks to use them as money laundering outfits. Do some research.
I know in my city the foreigners who start up small businesses NEVER get a loan. They save and save and save, live 10 people to one apartment or house, eat foods that cost very little to buy (LOTS of rice and beans, etc). And when they've saved up enough money they start the business and don't hire any employees. It's also why these businesses have a much lower failure rate than American owned businesses. They don't have all the debt hanging over their heads. All the workers are family members who live together. Most arrogant Americans would never be willing to live or do things the way most foreigners do.
No R79, that's exactly the point. It's a massive sacrifice to live this way. Most people are unwilling to do this, instead opting to sit back and type their opinions onto their iPads and whine that the other guy is getting preferential treatment when that's simply not the case.
Really, isn't it more like a "cunt/talk radio listener" to say the brown people are getting a free ride? I'm saying the dead opposite, so please go fuck yourself.
I agree, R91 -- and I know it from personal experience, but you'll always have fools like R90 and R65 who just pull nonsense out of their asses to excuse their own failings in life. The concept of hard work would never enter into their googling... sorry, "research."
Oh, and R90? You're right about organized crime, except you're wrong about how it works.
The Italian mob (ya know, those jackasses who think they're such great Americans and it's the other people who are really "foreigners"?) used to control private sanitation and would essentially extort large sums of money from small business owners who had no choice but to pay the exorbitant rates.
I loathe Rudy Guiliani, but he was definitely a great prosecutor and I'm glad he fucked over those assholes. Vermin.
r91 and r93 exploit immigrants via a supply chain.
They call this "fighting for civil rights."
Everyone always has to turn a question that is fact then try an turn it into a race war that's stupid get off race fact foreigners have a type of way with getting funds period yes Americans are more lazy then ever still doesn't change facts that they get more help then a born citizens period stop going to the race card stuffs old man get over it
Well, I am not as lazy as the majority of Americans today. If you all get off your butts and work harder, perhaps we would not need all these foreigners in our country to do the work for us. That's why they are taking over because our laziness is allowing. However, I want to start my own business, and I am having all kinds of trouble getting the loan that I need to build, market, and open the business. This in itself is insane!! I, personally, am a Navy veteran and have given so much to my country. Why shouldn't I be put ahead of foreigners when I have already proven just how hard I do work, time and time again! I can out work EVERY SINGLE foreigner in this country!! Bet!!! So, not to mention I am from Cherokee descent because that descent exist on both sides of my family and not just one. Therefore, originally, my ancestors were the ORIGINAL Natural Born Americans!!
Sorry Mr. Farmer but Americans work harder than people in India and China. That's a fact. These immigrants are not succeeding because they work harder, nor are they immune to general economic conditions. They are set up in business by fellow immigrants and often do not have the resources to succeed. It is frankly a lie that they have a lower failure rate for their businesses, and typically there is no creativity in their business models at all.
Most franchise opportunities in the US have requirements of liquid capital that fewer than 5% of Americans could meet. The immigrants do it by forging the documents, period. It is not about the big uncle Pasha in Peshawar. It's plain sign your name to something that isn't true to get your foot in the door and have Abdul pretend to be Pasha if he ever gets a call from America.
A lot of those businesses are money laundering operations.
I know a lot of Indians. None of them ever apply for Govt. loans or unemployment. Instead, they have very strong community ties. It works something like this: One Indian guy makes good, calls his brother/uncle/cousin and sets him up too, lending him the start up money. Gets loan back with interest or share in new business. Eventually one particular tribe or caste has cornered the entire region. Where I live, the Sikhs own all the gas stations and South Indians own all the cheapo motels.
Not necessarily so! Because actually, for some reason the foreign people are able to (GET)"Instant Credit!" And the Americans have to jump thru too many hurdles, & still not get loans for business! So, many Americans are not lazy, there are many Americans who work harder than any other human on the whole planet earth. Okaaaaaaaaay...
As other have said it used to be the same way for the Irish, the Italian, the Poles..
WHen I was growing up my mother wanted nothing to do with her Italian ancestry. She forbade my grandfather from speaking to me in Italian. My grandfather was an independent soul. He came to the US in the early 1900s and worked as a fruit peddler as did his brothers and sisters who also came over. They all lived in the same part of town as did all the others who came from the same village. Everybody married somebody from the old village, but not my grandfather.
At some point my grandfather struck out on his own. Got a job at the local newspaper where he worked for 50+ years. Meanwhile his brother and sister and brother in law continued selling fruit at the local markets. By the 1950s the company they started was one of the biggest produce producers in the US.
When I was growing up I heard all kinds of whispers about the rich relatives. I can only imagine how different my life might have been had my grandfather stuck with his siblings and worked with them instead of striking out on his own.
My father was just as stupid. When my grandfather died he refused to take over his father's business. He wanted nothing to do with it.
I had it beat into my head that the only way to get ahead was to go to college and get an education. Not the road to success as it was once considered,
Wow, a lot of racism in here.
It might have something to do with the 'immigrant advantage', in which new economic migrants tend to succeed particularly because they are the type of people who up and left their home and familiar surroundings for a better life, so they are particularly driven and work particularly hard. When I was a child my parents were immigrants - we never received any loans or benefits - but both my parents worked 2 jobs each, including nights. My father was a scientist but worked night shifts as a cab driver. Both of them did jobs that may have been thought of as 'beneath' them. They did it to be able to afford to send my siblings and I to good schools and get a good education. We left a politically unstable developing world country. I'm not saying people already here are 'lazy', but immigrants tend to be super driven and work very hard and long hours, in a way that I, as someone now acclimatized, would even find difficult. I don't know how my parents did it.
You're the racist R102. Many native borns would love that kind of life your parents had. And "Scientist" implies in an older generation, public funding, so cut out the "no help whatsoever" crap, it's a lie.
BANK LOANS....Americans not going through banks need mommy and daddy...yes, mitt we're talking to you.
Immigrants get loans through pools, etc...they by pass the BANKS. They have another source of capital.
next time you go and have a fit because these shops or hotels, or whatever are run by immigrants...well, look in the mirror. The Banking system as is and has been, that your representatives have allowed to get out of control all on your dime, is shutting you out. and being an American you probably don't have another way to get that capital. So you watch them open stores, run hotel chains, etc. while you...well...stew and get stewed.
[quote]Immigrants get loans through pools, etc...they by pass the BANKS. They have another source of capital.
[quote]Have you ever really sat down and thought about how and why Indians, Arabs and Koreans can so easily start up their own small businesses here in America while natural born citizens are routinely given the shaft in regards to business loans?
Wow. Loaded question much? Can't even read the rest of your stupid, reactionary flamebait trollery. Why are you so certain that Americans are being denied business loans in favor of immigrants? Are you basing this on anything but your own misinformed assumptions?0
Here's a clue, since you desperately need one:
Immigrants don't necessarily rely on bank loans. They start out usually working for other immigrants/family members, working shit jobs that most Americans won't do, live extremy frugally by American standards, save tons of their earnings and send for family members back home....who also work shit jobs, live frugally and save all their money. Then the family (multiple generations) pools their money and buys their own business. Then they hire more immigrants and so on.
Still don't get it? Try looking up "Dream, The American". Nearly every immigrant group followed this model of hard work, frugality, close family and ethnic ties with the goal of eventually owning a business, going back to the very first English settlers. That you think this is some nefarious plot by brown people and the banks in cahoots pagainst "real Americans" speaks volumes about your mindset.
Lol at 103 telling me I'm racist.... and that 'native borns' would love the life my parents had. Really? Members of an actively oppressed minority ethnic group that were victims of violence and torture? Yes I'm sure. And scientists, fyi, do not receive money for themselves from the govt, they receive it for research. So it has no bearing whatsoever on their personal lives.
All of which is why Native Americans and African Americans, two groups whose path and story is very different from any other general group of people now standing in America also have a very different outcome.
One group who got here kind of first and were doing very well, thank you very much, until some folks decided they wanted to take their shit. And a group of people who were brought here against their will, and then on top of it, to be subjugated and made to toil at the benefit of the people who were getting the loans...be it communal entities or banks...and largely picked because of their artisinal skills (as iron smiths, rice growers, leather smiths, etc.)...well, that's kind of screwed...and both groups still haven't recovered from this decimating start.
As an immigrant, having the freedom of pursuing your dreams, of working towards them freely (or with the help of others)..that is a nice start..and now, you see the Americans who have been here for five minutes also suffer from the entrenched morass of fuckery...by the system they helped build and let their elected officials destroy. Take note. Instead of seething about how these immigrants are able to do what you are not...seek the answer in it.
that they go outside of the banks. and fix it.
Because Americans can't fucking be bothered to be small businessmen, to work hard, to work long hours and seven days a week, to exercise financial discipline. Americans insist instead they are entrepreneurs and don't have the time or energy to work because they are too busy talking about "building their brand" and spending the money they haven't earned.
Why is everyone here assuming that immigrants who own businesses are starting from nothing and relying on loans? Not my experience
AT ALL with my fellow franchisees. Most are Indian, well educated professionals. They are middle aged, mid-level executives, just like the rest of us, who took an early retirement package and/or used savings to invest in their first unit. Some continue in their professional careers (usually IT) while other family members run the business.
You need a certain amount of net worth and business experience to get approved by the franchisor. You can't be living 10 to a room with no assets. Maybe you can own a hot dog cart or a cleaning business, but you won't be able to buy into any franchise opportunity I'm aware of. There are significant start up costs and you need to have enough assets to stay afloat until you turn a profit.
Thank you R76.
A lot of Americans are busting their asses off at eight dollar an hour jobs that used to be twelve an hour jobs. They don't have time to save because they're too busy trying to cover their essential bills for the month. Or paying exorbitant medical bills because their jobs decided insurance wasn't good enough for the peons.
The rich need to start contributing their fair share. And don't hand me that you worked so hard to get there. I guarantee you the middle class and poor have worked just as hard if not more.
R95 is a prime example of the mentality and intelligence-level of an idiotic, anti-immigrant tea-partier. They can't even form a coherent thought, confuse questions based on anecdotes and assumptions as "fact", and anyone questioning them is "going to the race card stuffs".
OMG, how hilarious is it that R95 unwittingly explained why so many Americans are ill equipped to successfully run a business? Just like him, they are illiterate halfwits.
[quote]you think this is some nefarious plot by brown people and the banks in cahoots
The Rothschilds aren't brown. Those are mere yacht tans.
The hell they Americans work can just as hard in fact these ppl can't speak English it's our country if they have this money like you said then they would stay in their country and run a business but no cause gov gives the go while born Americans get the 3rd degree