I need to settle a debate I''ve been having with a friend once and for all...\
Is it pretentious for a Ph.D holder to use the suffix "Dr." and request others to address him/her as Doctor instead of Mr. or Ms?
Sometimes. It depends.
Yes, it is pretentious; however, I strongly believe that someone who has spent the time and money pursuing a doctorate has every right to go by Dr. It would be foolish not to.
In an academic setting where others are pulling similar rank, no (not pretentious; possibly necessary)\
In other settings (like "please address me as Dr. Twit" at a gathering where no one else is being addressed that way) - yes, very pretentious.
Well, it depends on the circumstances.\
I have a colleague with a doctorate in statistics. She wants her coworkers to address her as "Dr. Marianne". I can''t believe it. We all laugh at her behind her back.\
On the other hand, I introduce her to professionals outside our immediate work environment as "Dr. Marianne Faithful" and expect people to call her Dr. Faithful until told otherwise (which is never because she eats that shit up).
Names have been changed to protect the guilty.
You mean like Dr. Laura & Dr. Cosby? It''s fine. As long as you make them refer to you by all of your titles.
Empress Carlotta, Tsarina of Park Slope
I think it depends on locale and what your doctorate is in. If it is in English or literature, for example, it is pretentious in the Northeast but common down South to be called "doctor." Also, in nursing school, it was common to call teachers "doctor" even if they only had a Master''s (which I always found odd). I am used to saying "Professor" and have been corrected.
I agree with r3. In a professional/academic environment I think it is perfectly fine to use "Dr." in your title. But if you''re in a casual social setting and keep pushing the Dr. angle then you''re probably bordering on obnoxious.\
This is a tricky gray area though...is it pretentious to use "Dr." on your holiday cards?\
"Merry Christmas from Dr. Schmoe!"
OP, you mean prefix, not suffix.
I''ve never known a Ph.D. who DIDN''T use the Dr. prefix to their name.%0D\
However, that doesn''t mean a friend should call them "Dr." in informal settings. I call my Dr. friends by their first names only.
You don''t use the suffix Dr. you use the suffix Phd. \
If you are introduced to someone who uses the title "Dr." then they must also give the reason they are a "Dr." \
Eg. This is Dr. Blowhard; he''s teaches economics at Bumfuck U. \
Then people call you what ever they will. If you are currently teaching, your students may address you as Professor or Dr.
In the UK and Europe it seems to be traditional.\
In the US it''s ridiculously pretentious and generally seen as a mark of insecurity, especially now that no tenurable professor lacks a PhD. I teach college in the humanities and would want my undergrads to call me "Mr." or at the most "Professor." My reaction to being called "Dr." when it happens feels like a form of reverse snobbery. I remember high school teachers with PhDs in education insisting on the "Dr." thing to separate them from the herd. I''ve definitely noticed the title is more common at lower-ranked colleges and universities. \
R2''s argument is just embarrassing.\
Obviously I''m talking about the usage in an academic setting. In a social situation it''s grounds for punch-and-delete.
Despite the doctorate, R11 is just a piece of common trash.
But if I met my doctor at a social gathering I would still address him as "Dr."
My BF holds a PhD in economics and does not want to be called "Dr." he works for a well known pharma company. No one does, really, though he is often written up in company correspondance as such. %0D\
I''m proud of him, though. My little doctor-man.
I have a Ph.D. and I''m a woman. I only expect to be called "doctor" in a work setting if it''s appropriate. Aside from that, Ms. works best for me.
When I went to college, at the beginning of every class the professor would write his or her name on the board. If they were a Ph.D they would write "Dr. So-and-So" and if not just "Prof. So-and-So".\
But I don''t recall any of the Ph.Ds forcing the students to address them as Doctor. Only as Professor. It would be rude to call any professor "Mr. So-and-So".
That''s adorable, R14. You should tell him that one day, if you haven''t already.
Why am I a common piece of trash, r2/r12?
r8, my prefix is 273. Geezers still call it CRestview.
They should be required to write "Dr. Joe Schmoe, Ph.D." We''ll know they''re not only redundant, but not a real doctor.
I agree it does vary.%0D\
In most formal settings, it seems common to use the prefix "Dr.". I certainly never called any of my professors in college by their first names (in grad school it was different).%0D\
btw "professor" often is slang for any college teacher, but "Professor" normally connotates academic rank. %0D\
A new or inexperienced hire might start out as Assistant or Associate Professor, and not be made a full Professor until later in their career (if ever).%0D\
I think it''s a sign of respect to call a Ph.D holder "Dr.", at least at first (or when making introductions). But your friend doesn''t have to be a twat about it "Mom, I TOLD you to call me ''Dr Jonny''".
As others have said, context is everything in this debate. %0D\
Coming to DL to settle something "once and for all" is...priceless.
I have befriended a colleague who is an MD. It is so hard to not call her Doctor when out in public. I''m just so used to it. She constantly corrects me.
I have a PhD and use it only professionally, that is to say at work and in professional settings.%0D\
I work mostly with physicians as well. Few of them who I also know as friends use their MD titles as Dr. in their private lives.%0D\
In situations where I would use Mr. or Mrs. I would use Dr. where applicable. %0D\
I don''t go around addressing my friends who aren''t doctors as Mrs. or Mr., so I wouldn''t casually address my doctor friends as DR.%0D\
I mean honestly, when do you use Mr. or Mrs. anyway, outside of a professional situation?
So it''s unclouth for a medical physician to use the title "Dr. Joe Schmoe, MD"?
As others said, the university where I teach has the social norm of calling any faculty member with a PhD "Doctor". It's not meant as an ego thing, it's just an old tradition. I agree with the differences people mentioned about north and south, and I think we can also note a difference between public universities where people announce rank on a regular basis, and liberal arts colleges that are "learning communities" where everyone, including the faculty, are expected to use first names only.
I've seen some full professors who pull rank by asking to be called Professor instead of Dr. but it never sticks. I also know some faculty members who have MAs (for example in the Communication Arts, Media Arts, Fine Arts) who end up being called Professor because they teach but they are not a Dr.
The other thing I would be curious about: Displaying diplomas in frames in your office at your universities? I was raised to think it was the height of tacky grandstanding to display any diploma in your office, that that was reserved for the medical MDs and Dentists who had to display their qualifications to patients before services rendered. I have only one or two colleagues who display their diplomas in their office and they are either from Europe or made fun of behind their back by some of the other faculty.
"I was raised to think it was the height of tacky grandstanding to display any diploma in your office..."%0D\
How odd. I don''t think that''s true at all... I think it''s just a personal choice.
I hope more people will weigh in on the question too, R28. Just out of curiosity, what''s your discipline? I''m in a humanities field, but I know a lot of Business faculty who display their diplomas like crazy. I don''t display diplomas but I do display other things like community service awards.
R27 I wonder about that too. I''m a licensed therapist and the only thing I tote up is my license, whereas other colleagues have the big framed grad and undergrad diplomas. I''m pretty sure the only document *required* for posting is the license.
If you are "treating" people, your patients should refer to you as Dr. I actually like calling my friends, on occasion, Dr. They''ve earned it and I respect it.
It's NEVER appropriate for anyone, Ph.D., D.D.S., or M.D., to ask to be called "Dr." socially anymore. It is fine to address them as such in letters if you want to be formal.
Ph. D.s should be addressed as "Dr. XXX" on campus if they are professors and you are on a campus where professors commonly go by the prefix "Dr." and you are seeing them for a professional reason (for example if you are a student visiting a professor in his or her office hours). "Dr." as a term of respect is more often used in the South.
In the North and Midwest and West, professors are more commonly addressed as "Professor XXX," and should be addressed as such on campus or in a professional context when you are consulting them for their expertise.
At some liberal arts schools, professors go by their first names with their students. If you are not a student (or former student) at their college and are consulting them about a professional matter, you should address them on campus or in a professional context as "Professor XXX."
Doctors and dentists should be addressed as "Dr. XXX" in their offices or hospitals. Socially you should address them the same way they address you: if they call you "Bridget" outside of the medical office, you should free to address them outside of it as "Charlie."
Ph.D. ( and current college professor)
r26, in correct form say Dr. Joe Schmoe or Joe Schmoe, MD. Not both titles around the name.
Technically, a Ph.D. as a research degree requiring a published work (usually a dissertation) outranks an M.D., D.D.S., a D.M.D., or D.O. %0D
The medical/dental doctorates are not research degrees and rank below them, below even Masters that required a dissertation. Some 'medical' degrees such as D.Sc.D., D.Sc. which require dissertations outrank MDs and DDSs.%0D
Protocol is to list your highest degree last. You will often see MDs (especially in Med schools) listed as John Doe, MD, MPh or Jane Doe, DDS, DScD.%0D
In the British system our MDs receive BCh degrees -- Bachelor of Surgery and are usually called Mister.%0D
So, actually, while a bit out of style, it is proper to call a PhD doctor and in academic settings a PhD is placed above MDs. Even in medical settings (hospitals, med schools) a PhD is addressed as doctor.%0D
(I'm a precentor and clinical instructor at an ivy league med school with non-med doctorates [anthropology & theology] and am listed and addressed as doctor. In my dentist's office, not so much ...
Not all fields have PhDs as the terminal degree. \
I was an assistant to the head of a department at Columbia. I remember that people from fellowships like Rhodes, etc would call and ask to speak to Dr. X. I did not have the heart to tell them that she was just Ms. X.\
It was odd though because no PhD that I have met call themselves Dr. It is just tacky, unless you give advice on TV or radio.
so a TV Ph.D can be "Dr". but an a academic at a research institution is jut Mr?
Calling themselves Dr is how TV PhDs signal that they are charlatans. Unless they are trying to warn off those of us who have common sense, it is just tacky for PhDs to use the title.
Only if students address me. Outside academia, I would never use it. I''m also slightly uncomfortable if non-academics working at my university use it, e.g. people from administration, HR, etc.
What R3 said.
In a social environment, John Smith works for either. No need for pretension. In a formal situation, Ph.D. - Mr. John Smith; M.D. - Dr. John Smith. Ph.D.''s tend to be arrogant assholes that live in their heads and believe they know everything about anything. Academia is their cocoon and mostly have little to no life experiences. I love pissing them off! BTW, I''m a Ph.D.
I think it is ridiculous to address someone who holds a PhD a "Dr." Regardless of how long their academic pursuits take, a person with a PhD will never be a doctor/dr. as far as I'm concerned. If I'm choking in a restaurant and someone shouts "We need a doctor here!" what person with a PhD would dare step forward?
I argue as someone who does not have a PhD. I have a masters degree, and there really is no higher degree in my field, does this mean I should insist that people address me as Master So-and-so? No. That would be ridiculous. It's not much different for someone with a PhD. A doctor is someone who has graduated from an accredited medical school, is someone who has been educated to apply medical learning and diagnoses to to human beings. A PhD holder is someone who has graduated from an accredited institution an a field that is not medicine, is a person who has been educated to work in academia. In most colleges and universities, it is not proper to refer to a PhD holder as Dr., just ask medical students and faculty members.
So, regardless of what has emerged as convention, I urge all of you to resist referring to PhD holders as doctors. They are not. Remember this when you have an illness.
Wow, R41, sour grapes?? It''s not my fault there are no PhD degrees in basket weaving or whatever you acquired a "degree" in.
Eat my PhD bitch!
"In most colleges and universities, it is not proper to refer to a PhD holder as Dr., just ask medical students and faculty members."%0D
You are categorically wrong. I am faculty at a major medical school with a PhD in a health related discipline, and I am adjunct faculty at 2 additional universities in the same city.%0D
Until I request that students and faculty peers at the medical school and additional graduate departements address me by my first name they alway address me as Dr. XXX.%0D
In all professional settings at the schools and elsewhere I am always introduced as Dr XXX. In my private life I am my first and last name. At home, in my appartment building, among friends etc. In fact only my good friends know I have a PhD.%0D
I teach medical students and advise doctoral candidates in our medical university programs. Our PhD programs and degrees are much more rigorous than the MD degree. Dissertaions in good programs are among the most difficult of all endeavors I know of. (This is one of the best medical schools in the nation.) I do research at the medical school collaborating with MDs and many PhD scientists. We are all Drs and all addressed as Dr... in an hour I going to teach a class of senior MDs obtaining translational research masters. They all address me as Dr. XXX until they are comfortable calling me by my first name.%0D
Obviously my MD peers know that I am not an MD and will not operate on or write orders for drugs or intervene medically in an emergency. This has absolutely nothing to do with how someone if addressed and identified professionally as well.%0D
can''t spit it out, this PhD, how someone addresses and identifies me professionally."%0D\
... and sorry for additional typos above.%0D\
Doctors of anything are pretentious, it comes with being a doctor. A Doctor of Turdology would want to be called Doctor even if he spent is his education studying shit.
Oy. A PhD isn''t a real doctor.
Mrs. Dr. Barry Weiss, DDS, Great Neck, Long Island.
%C3%92h, R46, you''re quite the retarded little one, aren''t you?\
Medical doctors are just that - medical doctors. It''s been shortened to doctor in common usage. Ph.D.s are, by definition, doctors.\
Anyway, I''m about a year from getting my Ph.D. (second part of my comps start tomorrow!), and the thought of being called Doctor is so ridiculously foreign to me that I can''t begin to imagine it. I even cringe when my students call me "Professor." It doesn''t make me feel professional or respected in the least - just OLD.
This all is settled, right? \
I prefer to be called "Professor," which where I am from means more. But only in the academic environment. Elsewhere Mr. (Herr) is fine. Or my first name with friends. \
To expect people in a social setting to refer to you by an educational title is ridiculous. I refuse, for that matter, for any non-clerical title less than Duke. I let the religious have their fripperies.
In cunt at R41's scenario, what he left out was the unspoken modifier: in the restaurant they are shouting "We need a [medical] doctor here!". %0D
As opposed to say, a Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D), Doctor of %0D
Doctor of Arts (D.A./D. Arts), %0D
Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.), Doctor of Church Music (D.C.M.), %0D
Doctor of Canon Law (J.C.D./D.C.L.), %0D
Doctor of Design (D.Des.), %0D
Doctor of Education (Ed.D.), %0D
Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng./D.E.Sc./D.E.S.), Doctor of Fine Arts (D.F.A.), %0D
Doctor of Health Science (D.H.Sc.), %0D
Doctor of Hebrew Letters (D.H.L.), %0D
Doctor of Industrial Technology (D.I.T.), Doctor of Juridical Science (J.S.D./S.J.D.), Doctor of Music (D.M.), %0D
Doctor of Musical/Music Arts (D.M.A./A.Mus.D./D.Mus.A.), %0D
Doctor of Music Education (D.M.E.), %0D
Doctor of Modern Languages (D.M.L.), %0D
Doctor of Nursing Science (D.N.Sc.), %0D
Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.), %0D
Doctor of Public Administration (D.P.A.), Doctor of Physical Education (D.P.E.), %0D
Doctor of Public Health (Dr.P.H.), %0D
Doctor of Sacred Theology (S.T.D.), %0D
Doctor of Science (D.Sc./Sc.D.), %0D
Doctor of Social Work (D.S.W.), and %0D
Doctor of Theology (Th.D.).%0D
So while medical professionals may have adopted the term as a 'first name', it's silly to think they only they can use the title. Like it or not, they are just another kind of Doctor.%0D
Most Ph.D's I know (and I work higher education) are known by their first time. I may use their title in formal occasions, or when making introduction, which is only polite and expected.
Classically a doctor of medicine should always be addressed as doctor. A phd in nursing, for example, should not be addressed the same way. If placing name cards at a table say, at a wedding, Dr as a prefix can be used for a phd, but it would be considered an insult to write mr or mrs for a doctor of medicine. They should always be addressed that way.
It is generally considered pretentious for anyone with a doctorate - J.D., Ph.D, D.D.- who is not a health practitioner to insist on being called Dr.
How many lawyers insist on being called doctors?
This is always an issue. I am a non-PhD scientist, spent many years in school (left a PhD program with a Masters instead) so have many people around me at school and at work who hold PhDs. In school, I always address all professors as doctor and wait for them to correct me - then I call them whatever they ask me to. At work, I do the same thing, although in 20+ years of working I've never once met a PhD who asked to be called doctor. I always address PhD holding colleagues as doctor to outsiders or new employees - and always use the prefix when addressing outside people with email if I know their status, or if they hold a senior scientist position or above. My partner is a professor, his students call him professor, only once in a while someone addresses him as doctor, but he does not hold a doctorate and always corrects them - he does refer to other professors as doctor in front of the students and it seems all the students there address all of their professors as doctor - I guess you should first start using the prefix and wait for them to respond and instruct you - I have several physicians who over the years have become friends and have come to my home for parties and also attend fund raising events that I work on, and even though they have corrected me and asked me to call them by their first names, I can't - not sure why - it's a respect thing for me I guess
Some of the responses on here explain why medical doctors have such huge egos.
Also, does nobody here have experience of a university where students call the lecturers by their first name?
It's pretentious. And it's earned. If someone insists on being called Dr., assent to his/her wishes, and silently judge their pretense.
And, indeed, a Ph.D. outranks an MD, and some of the outrage regarding that seems to reflect our sad economic priorities in this country that privilege making money over education.
What about Veterinarians? Do we call them Dr. outside of the vet office? To their credit, instead of knowing the human body systems, they usually know 4-5 others (cat, dog, horse, cow, rodent, lizard, bird) pretty well and have doubtless studied many more. I would feel safer with a veterinarian than a PhD in many situations.
Dr Jill Biden teaches ESL at a community college. If she weren't married to the VP, she'd be a bottom feeder in the academic world.
A friend of my husband's has a PhD in Physics. Before cellphones were really common, he'd called and left a message on his friend's answering machine giving my mother's phone number and telling him he could be reached there. He specifically said it was my mother's house. When his friend called, we'd gone to 711 to pick up some milk for my mom. We got back and my mother told us that "Dr Mugwump called and left a message for John to call him. Is John sick?"
I said, "I dunno..." then I remembered his friend's last name was Mugwump. I mean really. To call your friend at his in-laws house and identify yourself as "doctor" is too low.
DVMs are much smarter than MDs. People who don't get accepted to veterinary school become medical doctors or lawyers.
r51 seems to be posting from Birmingham, AL from the year 1952.
The world has changed. Wake up. Even medical doctors are never addressed as 'doctor" socially anymore (except by their patients and by mistake).
I have two. Ph.Ds (in different fields, needless to say). I tell my students they are free to address by my first name, as Professor _____, Mr. ________, or Professor _________ (yes, to anticipate the snark, they also us my last name, not a blank). I simply remind them not to confuse use of first name with an equal power relationship--I still must give them grades. Socially, of course, I wouldn't ask anyone at a gathering to use an honorific--either first name or Mr., depending on level of familiarity. Insisting on being addressed is tacky, and referring to oneself by any form of address ("This is Dr. Smith calling") is gauche.
r60, "power relationship"!! You're a lot of fun.
Oh, and r50, Columbia "gave" a PhD to a DSW-holder who submitted a completely false CVita. However, her $600 check cleared which, apparently, is the real criterion for the "upgrade."
It's ridiculous to call Ph.Ds "Doctor" outside an academic atmosphere, and even though you would likely be calling them "Professor."
Ph.Ds who demand that people refer to them as doctor or put Dr. so-and-so on their correspondence doubly embarrass themselves because 1) people will invariably ask if they're a medical doctor (and think you're stupid when you're not) and 2) people will snicker behind your back about how silly you are referring to yourself as a doctor when you're not a medical doctor.
We need a new word for "Academic Doctor."
The short answer to OP's original question is "Yes."
I have gone back to school to get a masters degree in social work and am a minister in a small non-Christian church. On the first day of class last semester, I addressed a PhD as "professor" and he loudly and smugly corrected me by saying, "I prefer to be called Dr. Smith, Mr. Jones. I worked hard for my degree." So I responded, "I beg your pardon, Dr. Smith, then you may call me John or [bold]Reverend[/bold] Jones." Some of the other students still call me "rev" because they thought it was funny, but I'm actually kind of embarassed I didn't just let it go. But I still got an A.
BTW, names have been changed, blah blah blah.
Interesting to see how many credentials lots of DL posters have. Quite a mixed crowd here.
Doctor's office = yes
Vet's office = yes
Academic setting = yes, unless told otherwise
Everywhere else, no. But if someone makes an introduction as a doctor, it's polite to honor that request and does no harm to do so. No need to be defensive or insecure about terminal degrees that end at the Master's level or what ranks where and whatnot.
Yes, I'm from the South.
In the US and Canada yes it is, outside it varies.
In the USA and Canada, "Doctor" commonly means physician. The two words are interchangeable basically.
Not so in the rest of the world. So if you're using "Doctor" in a situation where one would not know it was an academic title, rather than a physician than you are pretentious.
The same way you can refer to a dentist or a vet or a psychologist as a "Doctor" in the appropriate setting.
Earning a degree has nothing to do with it. I know of PHDs who work hard on their degrees and others who did little, it came easy for them. So what? The easy ones aren't entitled to use the degree? No, effort has nothing to do with it.
Sort of veering off topic a little, but I follow a few new age type people who claim to have PhDs, and just for fun I researched one day and found that at least two of these people who claim to be healers received their "PhDs" from a diploma mill. Now the first thing I do when I see some supposed expert on youtube or a talk show who claims to have one is to research, and nine times out of ten they are from diploma mills. I am pretty skeptical of the new age in general, but I guess I am always hoping at least one of them will be the real deal.
I guess the true PhDs are firmly grounded in academia, and if they veer out into mainstream publishing, they still keep their day jobs, unlike the phonies who sell endless seminars on self improvement online.
I recently received my MPA. I address all of my professors as Dr. Thisnthat. My academic adviser, who is now a good friend, I call solely by his last name. Everyone references him by his last name; everyone knows his rank.
I work with a prac-ademic in government. Outside of class, at work he prefers to be called "Robert". When he provides testimony or official representation he is always addressed as "Dr Thisnthat".
I have applied for a PhD program. We'll see.
I hold a Ph.D. in comparative literature and students generally call me "doctor" until I tell them to call me by my first name. I don't like the honorific; makes me look over my shoulder for my uncle who's a surgeon. However, my partner has a Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and design and works for boeing. EVERYONE addresses him as "doctor." If they don't, he'll kick their ass.
I take issue with people who have received honorary degrees, but use the title Dr. Examples include Dr. Maya Angelou and Dr. Lonise Bias.
As to the diplomas in offices: professors display their PhD diplomas in tribute to their alma maters in the same way they will continue to wear their doctoral robes, ceremonially, from the awarding institution for the remainder of their careers. No ego thing just a reference thing. I also see fellowships and honor society certs hung as a matter of fact.
Professionally, my agency rewards people who take the initiative to pursue educational advancement.
My MPA diploma and my Cert in Public Management are hung on a side wall of my office. I will never put up my undergraduate diploma, as some have done, as it comes from a well known private university. For some reason THAT would come off a snooty. Licenses are displayed when they relate to employment and are reviewed for renewal.
Ultimately, aside from the personal satisfaction, the only place they are required is on a job application by reference.
LOL R67. As an undergrad, my professors always wanted us to call them by their first names. However, being from the south, I always had the impulse to show courtesy and call them "Prof. Last Name." Even the grad student TAs I would sometimes call Mr./Ms. Last Name.
[quote]I hold a Ph.D. in comparative literature and students generally call me "doctor" until I tell them to call me by my first name. I don't like the honorific
An earned degree does not result in a honorific title. It is an earned title.
In twentieth century usage "Doctor" was used as a term of address only to a medical doctor, dentist or some other medical professional with a doctoral degree. In an academic setting you called someone with a doctorate "Professor," not "Doctor." In written form, you just used the person's name followed by the letters denoting the type of degrees they had, like John Smith, PhD (for a doctor of English literature) or Joan Jones, M.D.
But popular usage changes and maybe everybody with a doctorate is now called Doctor. My opinion though is you shouldn't be called Doctor unless you're either legally empowered to write scrips or own a Tardis.
Is it pretentious to insist that people continue to call me "Governor Romney"?
It's fine, r77.
I decided to have students to call me "Dr." for the number of years equal to the time I spent earning the damn thing. After that I'll start going by "Mr." or--more likely--just my first name with them.
For everyone else it's always "Mr." (when appropriate) or my first name.
I forgot to add:
I think it's okay to put up ONE framed degree in your office if it's a school you are especially proud to have attended. More than one starts to seem like bragging.
And I would never put "Dr." on my checks, address labels, credit cards, etc. That's some pretentious shit.
In correct form one does not say "Doctor John Jones, MD. He is Dr. John Jones or John Jones, MD.
Emily Post and Amy Vanderbilt.
Elderly Ph.D. (in Communications, no less) in our building insists all call him "Doctor". Lady living here overheard him being called "Doctor" and she approached him to find out if he was an oncologist. Her husband was dying of cancer and she wanted another opinion. Embarrassing.
I'm Dr. Mary Albright, Ph.D.
I have several friends who are holders of both Doctorate Degrees and Medical Degrees. It depends on the person. I KNOW that both have put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into getting that training and Diploma...however, the unpretentious insist on using their "Given" names without the Doctor prefix. In fact my Doctor, insists that I call him "Tony," which is his first name (I've been his patient for 20 years).
R82. What's with the "Communications, no less" snark. I have one of my Ph.Ds in a Communications field--trust me, there are as many dolts in the more traditional fields as in Comm.
But the elderly Ph.D who insisted on being addressed as Dr. Is a douche. And insisting on being addressed by any title is a sign of bad manners and insecurity. Period.
My cousin married a guy with a Ph.D in English. Their wedding invitations announced that she would be marrying 'Dr. Smith'. The entire family (and I'm sure friends as well) thought that it was hysterical. We still laugh about it sometimes. It is just so pretentious.
My best friend is a doctor of medicine. I never call her "Dr" unless I want some xanax.
This topic really annoys me. I discovered a friend from high school has been appearing on national TV and radio shows for years now as a "specialist" in stress - whatever the hell that means. She CONSTANTLY refers to herself as DR. So and So - in everything she writes or says.
All her advice is nothing more than common sense or even worse something like "surround yourself with beauty to stay calm throughout the week - so make sure you always buy fresh flowers for your home."
LOL!!! And more idiotic things like that. So if your stress is caused by money problems go spend your money on a constant supply of fresh flowers?
I looked her up and she went back to school after working in accounting/finance and got a masters in divinity and a doctorate from a seminary in "spirituality" - what is THAT?
Anyway it pisses me off because her subject matter suggests that she is a medical doctor or at the least a psychologist. Which, of course, she is not. It's very misleading. I actually went online and read some excerpts from her books and all they show is a narcissist bragging about herself and how wonderful she is. I was embarrassed for her especailly when she compared herself to Gandhi and Jesus. I also found a bunch of unnecessary exaggerations about herself that suggest to me she's a pathological liar.
So the question is - is her doctorate in spirituality better than my J.D.? LOL! And should I make the judges call me Doctor? "Overruled, Doctor."
Just call me Al
 Anyone who has more than one Ph.D. (and a law degree too perhaps?) and uses the word "douche" is, well, a douche.
It pays to increase your word power, Doll.
I have two Masters degrees. As I told one insufferable English lit Ph.D who demanded to be referred to as "Doctor", "Call me 'Master' first and you got a deal."
Neither request was honored and that was for the best.
Yes it is annoying as fuck. I only call people doctors who practice medicine. Why can't these Ph. D holders just say they have a Ph D? I refuse to call them Dr and if they insisted, I would just keep saying "You" or "he/she".
I work in medical research and am around md's and phd's. 95 percent of the time, it's the phd's that insist you call them doctors. MDs on the other hand usually prefer being called by their first names unless you are interacting with them in the patient care areas.
r83 is Halfbright.
A prominent Houston socialite was granted an honorary doctorate in "humanities" (from a school with questionable accreditation to begin with) and went around having herself referred to as Dr. Carolyn Farb.
I think someone must have clued her in to what an embarrassing joke that was, since recently she seems to have cut that shit out, for the most part.
This thread must be bumped; the angst, the sturm und drang must continue.
When I am hooded I will post as a PhD here, my bitches!
I have a PhD and would only expect to be called doctor if it was appropriate in a work setting.
[quote]if it was
I have noticed that the lamer the PhD the more the holder will insist on being called doctor. PhD's in education particularly administration or special education. Also Psychologists, Theology, PhD's in"studies" of some variety that are largely advocacy or cheer leading types. People with PhD's in physics, chemistry or any hard science for the most part never insist in being called doctor.
Depends on the circumstances. Where one is consciously reminding people of one's (relevant) credentials, it's permissible -- until one quickly suggests that he or she be called by the first name. In some fields, everyone's got one, so it's moronic to use the honorific (unless one is trying to persuade someone to undress). I never use mine, except for that purpose, or where someone has taken the liberty of calling me by my first name in clearly inappropriate circumstances. (A receptionist, for example, who calls her/his boss Dr. Something, but calls me by my first name.)
Okay, so I'm a prig. Take that into consideration when reading my answer.
Lawdy, I'll nevah tire of calling a preacher Reverend Doctor.
After Martin Luther King it became an epidemic.
Ph.D - Post-nominal histrionic Delusions?!? Sibling with a Ph.D. (Academic/Education) who insists everyone address him as Doctor so and so (sometimes even in family settings)... very pretentious and very annoying. I'm all for getting advanced degrees - but everyday actions should distinguish you, not your educational level. After one is in the work-a-day world your title/GPA/school count for very little - it is all about performance.
If it was someone over 70 years old who was very serious about education, ok.
People with Phds demanding to be called Dr now? Can't take them seriously. I know a few and I wouldn't even call them "intellectual."
My urban school district has several African American female administrators with hyphenated last names and PhD's from bible colleges, who mince around in their smart business suits and high heels, insisting that EVERYONE address them as 'doctor.' Some are actually functional illiterates, so they're very defensive and vindictive.
In college, the least intelligent teachers, and generally the most disliked referred to themselves as 'doctor'.
Unless one is a full professor, or a particularly distinguished figure in a non-medical field, it's ALWAYS pretentious to expect to be referred to as a doctor. Always.
Academia is a snake pit and everyone snickers about such people.
The town I grew up in paid for the teachers to take summer classes, so our school system was littered with principals calling themselves doctor because they had their Ed.D. from the local teachers' college.
Not an ounce of talent in the bunch, but they expected to be called doctor by everyone in the community.
I worked for a large urban school district in the Northeast. The superintendent (who only held a master's degree, don't ask)was granted an honorary degree from Bank Street College of Education in NYC (said school does not offer a doctoral program) The superintendent then insisted that she be addressed as Doctor, and all official correspondence right down to curriculum guides had that title before her name. HUBRIS! and laughable.
I have two Ph.D.s. When people (including my students) ask me how I wish to be addressed, I say either by my first name or, if they wish to be more formal, "Mr. _________"
I work in academia, and I was taught to use a kind of reverse snobbery--since you should assume everyone on the faculty holds the appropriate terminal degree, there is no reason to make such distinctions (i.e. Ph.D. vs. MFA or other professional degree). Only in places where people have not earned the highest degree in their field does one need to draw such lines.
I had a colleague, years ago in a farm-belt backwater school, who always signed her name "Dr. Jane Hudson, Ph.D" and then put on the second and beyond pages of her syllabus, "Hudson, Ph.D." She got her doctorate when she was in her forties, so it seemed important to her. Everyone laughed behind her back.
The MOST pretentious is "Dr. Maya Angelou." The doctorate is honorary--same as "Dr. Carol Channing" (whom I love, but it is no less pretentious of her to use the title), a nice gesture and a way of getting someone to campus as a commencement speaker usually, but silly to use outside the ceremony. I remember, decades ago, George Cukor had just received an honorary doctorate from somewhere, and he was on a talk show, and the host said something to the effect, "I guess we should address you as Dr. Cukor now," to which Cukor, who seemed genuinely embarrassed, muttered some kind of self-deprecating reply indicating that he did not want any of that nonsense. He may have been a shit in a lot of ways, but at least he knew the difference between an earned degree and a pretty ribbon.
Only MDs should be called Dr.
Vandy is a bit more formal. My Ph.D. is in comparative literature and students and faculty alike almost always, without exception, address those with doctorates as such. Years ago, it was even written into the policy that students were required to wait an extra ten minutes before leaving if their instructor held a Ph.D. and was late for class.
I'm forty-three years old and hold a Ph.D. from Boston University. I busted my ass. I've earned the honorific.
To say that only MDs should be addressed as "doctor" doesn't fly with me, not when my Ph.D. trumps their MD. An MD is nothing more than a professional degree, similar to a law degree.
Just my two cents. `
I call my psychologist who holds a PhD in psychology Dr. all the time. He is a key player in my health care and works closely with my primary physician in coordinating prescriptions and forwarding other findings regarding my mental health.
While he can't prescribe medication in my state, psychologists can prescribe some states. He actually tells my primary physician what prescriptions I need, it seems crazy he can't legally prescribe appropriate medications here.
I'd feel rather odd calling him anything other than Dr.
R108. Comparative literature vs a Doctor? Good fucking lord! You are a librarian. Save a life and we'll talk.
[R108] No one cares that you busted your ass and think you "earned" that honorific. I've earned many things in my life, but don't feel the need to be glorified by people who probably don't care what my achievements are anymore than I can about theirs.
Fail to call a chiropractor doctor and watch them freak.
Academia is so ruthless because it's one of the only fields where one is judged purely on their intelligence level. Since someone's intelligence, or lack thereof, is a sticky topic, things can often get heated. If you get passed up for a position of snubbed in the department you can't say it's not personal because you're basically saying the person isn't smart enough.
The same goes for why modeling/fashion is so ugly. Because it's all based off of looks, another very sore topic.
People in academia aren't judged on their 'intelligence.' They're judged on their article output (which can be, and usually is, a result of strategy) and/or the prestige of their alma mater (I went to Ivy League schools and I know the quality of the education there, overall, is no better than at many state schools although the contacts I made there were great) and/or (and this is the biggie) their ability/willingness to play a very nasty political game.
True intelligence is problematic in the academy. Sad, but true.
My students can -- and do -- call me whatever they want. I don't call anyone doctor.
agree with R114
I worked with a narcissist who received his PhD; I don't even know what it was in. He never did shit at work, he just wanted to be a big shot and expected everyone to follow his direction. It was obvious that was why he got the PhD, so people would respect him.
He was quite disappointed when no one changed their behavior toward him after he received his degree.
He left his Federal job after 20 years of service to become a consultant. I can't imagine what he is consulting in as I honestly never saw him do any work beyond brown nosing.
I have two Ph.D's, I loathe being addressed as "Doctor" and correct anyone who does it.
For those who stay in academia, it may be acceptable at times. Other than that, my understanding has always been that in the US, "Doctor" is socially acceptable for M.D.'s only.
The etymology of Doctor is via the Latin "Docere" - to teach. The second meaning, to heal, became common much later, around the 16th C. Which is why both PhDs and MBBS' are addressed as Dr in Europe, Britain (except for surgeons), and most ex-British colonies. In Australia pretty much everyone calls each other by their first names, including Uni students and academic colleagues. Everyone who teaches at a Uni is referred to as a lecturer, regardless of actual rank. One is only addressed as Dr, Assoc. Prof or Prof. in formal settings or correspondence.
[quote] Everyone who teaches at a Uni is referred to as a lecturer, regardless of actual rank.
Not true, R118.
When I was an undergrad my strategy to get on the professors' good sides were to always refer to them as "Dr. So-and-So" if they indeed held a PhD. No one ever told me to call them otherwise once I started addressing them as this. I think, deep down, everyone like their egos stroked a bit.
I also took a work-study job inside the Art History department during school and the viciousness I was witness to was shocking. I had no idea of the internal politics going on in the departments. It was like little fiefdoms with individuals vying for power and position. Quite fascinating. It's like everyone lived and died by Machiavelli's "The Prince".
SUFFIX. you think Dr. is a "suffix."
Honey, for your high school drop out education, a BA from a state school is pretentious... or awe inspiring.
You probably would have impressed them more, R120 if you had learned to punctuate a sentence correctly by placing the period INSIDE quotation marks.
Kill yourself, grammar troll. Correct enough for you, cunt?
I'm a grad student and it's been surprising how many professors don't care about the title they earned. A current professor who chairs a doctoral program has even insisted that we DON'T call him doctor.
It's true in most Australian and British Universities, R119. I've worked at a number of Oz and Brit Unis, and students most often refer to academics as "my lecturer" or "my tutor" rather than "my professor". Oz/Brit Academics also generally describe themselves or colleagues as academics or lecturers, not professors (unless they are actually full Professors).
It depends on the context. While working in the field in which one has a doctorate, one might want to use it to establish one's credentials. But one introduces oneself with one's name, not one's honorific, in any case.
Apart from establishing my authority on matters having to do with my field of expertise, I never refer to my doctorate -- except, of course, when it helps me persuade others to undress.
When did PhDs become so common? I have two (I'm in my 50s but I started college at 15). My dad had two. But for both of us, it was unusual to find people outside of work who had two doctorates. Now I see people get PhDs w/o original research, w/ 70-page dissertations that take four months to write, and in subjects that don't warrant a PhD because they're so derivative (e.g. social work, urban planning).
My friends tell me PhDs are more common now because schools need cheap labor and/or people are willing to shell out $70-100K to get one. Also, since cheating seems to be the norm now, students "job out" much of the work for the degree (I know that even happened when I was at Columbia). I serve on a fellowship committee (similar to the MacArthur grant) and we have to be ultra-careful about giving grants to people w/ PhDs (even from so-called good schools) because they're apt to be worth far less than we used to assume.
In my experience, PhDs are called "Professor" in the Northeast and "Doctor" in the South. Off campus, though, only an asshole would demand to be addressed this way.
PhDs became more common R128 with the rise of online diploma mills and for profit education.
The way I look at it if someone had to pay for their PhD then it isn't worth much.
It is sad. The PhD is supposed to be the highest academic degree(and yes, it is considered a higher academic degree than a MD) but the glut of PhDs now has caused it to reflect poorly on the entire degree.
For you pretentious snobs that think any non medical PHD should be called Dr., then you better start calling your attorney Dr since he has a Juris Doctorate degree.
Thinking of calling slime ball ambulance chasers Dr. will hopefully change the mind of the insecure arrogant PHD's that want to be called Dr.
I have a PHD in computer science.
I have a Ph.D. in psychology. I don't refer to myself as doctor, nor do most of my colleagues. I use it on academic articles, of course, but never in conversation. Most of my colleagues holding an MD refer to themselves as a physician, not "doctor." I think there was a shift not too long ago, when optometrists, dentists and chiropractors began using "doctor."
Throwing around the doctor card, no matter what your field, is gauche.
Why is it gauche R132 if it's something you've earned and worked hard to earn? Do medical doctors have the title "Dr." exclusively to themselves? And I'm not even close to being a Dr. anything.
I call my psychologist Dr. He doesn't ask me to, but he's earned the credentials, and he's providing as effective or better health care for me than many of the MD's I see.
I think this whole Doctor kerfuffle started with Henry Kissinger. There wasn't a news story about him that didn't refer to him as such.He may have insisted on it, who knows? Were his pronouncements supposed to carry more weight, because he had a DR. appended to the front of his name? Was he supposed to be deemed more forthright, honest and upstanding? Be that as it may, I find it utterly pretentious. And what did it all devolve to? Dr. Laura, Dr. Phil, Dr. Cosby et al.
The excitement of having a Ph.D. lasts about a week. And anyone who insists on being called "Dr. X", regardless of whether it's a PhD, MD, or DDS, is recognized by his or her peers as being a douchebag with low self esteem. The title should be used very sparingly. It can be heard when you are being introduced before you give a presentation or talk about your work, especially before strangers, but that's about it. The whole idea of titles and such strikes me as very anti-democratic in this day and age. What is next, Her Royal Highness? The only mail I ever get that has "Ph.D." at the end of my name is usually an alumni newsletter or magazine. That's enough for me.
BA, MS, PhD
As many have previously stated, the "proper" answer to this question is based on the circumstance.
I'm a cardiologist (1st year fellow) and when I round on my patients in the hospital, consult with colleagues (MD, PhD, Nurse), or interact with current or previous patients I prefer to be referred to as my title and to use other's titles when appropriate. The reasons for this is to insure a since of authority in my patients (it's necessary as I'm 28 and may be dismissed as just some kid) and to properly and efficiently ID myself to other health care professionals.
When I'm at the bar with my friends or talking with other people in the community I never ID my self as doctor. Why? Because I already powered through a whole day of being Dr. Thompson. And I really would rather not have to assume the clinically distant behavior when off the clock. Not to mention the possibility of being asked for medical advice. Most of my colleagues feel and behave in a similar way and I believe it is appropriate.
Question to all of the PhDs who say their degree is worth more than an MD. Do you guys know exactly what goes into becoming an MD? I don't begrudge your position or referring to you as Dr. in professional settings.
However, it is untrue to say that MDs don't need to publish or do research. The reality is that all medical doctors are taught how to do clinical studies and preform and interpret medical research. Who do you believe write, perform, and provide data for medical research papers and clinical trials? And yes I am aware many contributors are PhD (the are usually also MDs too).
As an example, to even be accepted into good residencies or even decent fellowship programs, publishing or research is required. As a point of reference, my medical knowledge is a culmination of 9 years worth of study and experience. I'm not here to brag, but would you guys really place a PhD of Economics or Comparative Literature above that type of medical preparation? I'm only comparing because it seems that some posters are misplacing their anger and hand waving the value of degrees they do not own.
If you worked your butt off for your degree, you know it and all the people important in your life know it to. Dismissing other's credentials because it isn't the same as yours is unprofessional and should be beneath those that call themselves doctors or professors.
I have a PhD from a university way above Boston University in the rankings and I think r108 sounds like a bloody idiot.
Also, r122 knows little about punctuation and even less about where to put quotation marks. That, at least, is the kind of thing you do (hopefully) learn when doing a PhD.
Good for you, R136. I'm impressed that you started Medical School at the tender young age of 19.
Sigh R131, no one thinks PhD holders "should" get the title of doctor. PhD's originated the title of Doctor, it was later used for Physicians to give them more prestige but the truth is from an academic perspective the use of Doctor is supposed to mean PhD. It is officially the "highest" degree.
With that said, I don't give a fuck, and anyone who isn't secure doesn't give a fuck. If you are hung up on titles and honors then that says more about you.
I'd bet that R137 can't go for 5 minutes withough name-dropping his oh-so-lofty alma mater. Step down off the pedestal, Doctor.
Depends on a few things. First off, in U.S. culture when most people hear you called Dr. they think you are a medical doctor. U.S. culture is also much more informal than some other parts of the world. We get to a first name basis much quicker, and it has much less significance if someone says to call them by their first name. Secondly, I think it makes a difference if you are employed as a professor or not. Last point I am kind of on the fence about, because it requires a judgment call on your part based on the individual in question, but personally I believe that someone who has a microbiology or engineering PhD deserves to be called Dr. more than someone from one of the 'basket-weaving' fields.
There's is so much variation among the difficulty in getting a PhD. Getting a PhD from MIT in one of the hard sciences is much more mentally taxing than getting a PhD in human development from Virginia Tech. In fact, V-Tech is so desperate for students that they have waived many doctoral requirements just to get their numbers up (and, therefore, not have to close programs and layoff faculty). The work required for an MD is more uniform (and, if it isn't, those graduates are 'found out' during boards).
That said, the PhD is considered the superior degree in the university system which is just one indication of how screwed up higher ed really is.
R108: "my Ph.D. [in comparative literature] trumps their MD."
LOL! Really? REALLY?
My brother claims his insane girlfriend has a Doctorate in art. Art History? No, a Doctorate in painting. Uh, last time I checked, there is no such thing.
Now, I have a Masters in Painting which basically means I paid the tuition and graduiated. Nothing more, nothing less. I learned stuff and had fun.
In a formal, academic setting, Dr. should be used. It's not just about affording the addressee the hard-earned respect s/he deserves, but also a way to equalize academics of different ranks akin to sitting at a round table. For example, a seminar could be attended by tenured professors, tenure-track but untenured assistant professors, non-tenure-track research/visiting/adjunct professors, post-docs, and other Ph.D. holding persons with other ranks. By addressing each other as "Dr." it sets the tone for the seminar that the opinions of all attendees are equally valuable and that rank does not confer any intellectual authority.
In informal settings, fellow Ph.D.s normally just call each other by their first names.
If you insist that your friends call you Dr. Whatever then you're an asshole.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaacully, R108 is correct about an MD being really just a trade school degree. There is no research involved or new knowlege created in obtaining one. The natural sciences where MDs are concerned are just rote memorization and trade skills. (but you need to be a little more nuanced, girl. It threatens the protestant ethic and social order when $$$ is not the end all be all of education.
What is this thing about MD's being called doctor in situations where everyone else is called by their name. They have a bachelor's degree, and as above said its all based on memory. They prescribe pills and take kickbacks from drug companies. They have done nothingto earn the courtesy
Only time I ever use the doctor (Ph.D) if some up his ass physician calls me by my given name while insisting on being called doctor themselves.
If a PhD holder ever asks you to use his or her title when addressing them outside of their academic venue, just put on your best Audrey from Little Shop of Horrors voice and say "I'm [italic]SORRY[/italic] Doctor! I'm [italic]SORRY[/italic] Doctor!"
That should put an end to it.
If I were a PhD I would be jealous of MDs too, r147.
[R138] You're being sarcastic. That's fine. I'm assuming here, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
I started medical school at 21, which is not at all unheard of. And I'll be 29 in in a couple of months. The nine years is including the completion of my fellowship which is 3 years (nearly everyone completes their fellowship so excuse me for adding the other two years on). That is the reason why I said I'm a first year fellow.
Instead of snarking at me, why not contribute to the thread?
I hold a PhD in Digital Media Studies and yes, I do appreciate being referred to by the doctoral title that I worked long and hard for. My theories have been published in the leading peer-reviewed media journals within my discipline and added to several course reading lists, and I have given four plenaries and two keynotes at US and European conferences this past year. Not to mention the landslide of teaching, admin, editorial and organizational duties filling every spare hour of my day. So I will take "Dr.", thank you very much! ;)
Not really, r140. I don't give a shit, that's the whole point. It's useful professionally but other than that, it doesn't matter.
Umm, every PhD that holds down a position at a respectable university can say those things R151. They still don't insist on being referred to as Dr all the time except in the appropriate circumstances.
If you really insist on the title at all times I guarantee all your colleagues are making fun of you behind your back. It is the hallmark of insecurity.
Actually, R153, not everyone who holds down a position at a university can say these things (and I am not surprised you level the tired "insecurity" criticism at me). Yes, all academics have to teach, organize, and do admin work, but it takes years of grinding dedication to achieve genuine distinction within one's discipline through actual research achievements. I was referring more so to my refereed publications and work as a theorist, which has helped to shift the critical discourse in tangible ways, such as its presence on course reading lists, and the fact that I have been invited to give plenaries and keynotes at highly visible conferences within my discipline. And of course I don't expect to be called Dr. in non-academic contexts, but frankly (given my workload) there are very few non-academic contexts in my life!
It is within your right, but I am currently a graduate student in PI's lab who is a member of the National Academy and has received a lifetime achievement award from his scholarly society. At my institution I've interacted with freakin Nobel laureates.
They always dispense of the formalities and go by their first name. There are a few of"those professors" who we know that insist on always being addressed as Dr. such and such. My PI makes fun of them for being pompous behind their back.
Whether you realize it or not you are "that guy" who people make fun of. If you are doing so well in your field everyone respects you and understands what you have accomplished. I would ask yourself why is it so important to you that you always get referred to as Dr?
The rule is well-established and there isn't any debate about it.
Within an academic setting - yes, Ph.D's should be styled "Dr" Whatever.
Outside of an academic setting, any Ph.D who insists on being styled "Dr" is a cunt.
I AM A DOCTOR!
R157= 9th year ABD
What is it with these fly-by-night subjects even offering a PhD?
Remember when Ross had new neighbors and they hated him? And Phoebe said it was because he was wearing a party name tag that read "Dr. Gellar." There's your answer, right there.
How about academic librarians who only have MLSs calling themselves "Professor?" I overheard one of them saying she didn't want to take an assistant professor's advice on a collaborative research paper because she was "senior" to him (he has a PhD) being that she's a tenured professor. At that point it's obviously all about status and prestige and nothing to do w actual qualifications. And please don't tell me they're held to the same standards for tenure, because at most places they aren't.
I'm Dr. Mary Albright, PhD.
You think you have problems?
My former partner was once given an honorary doctorate from a major university and INSISTED everyone call him Doctor.
[quote]If you are doing so well in your field everyone respects you and understands what you have accomplished. I would ask yourself why is it so important to you that you always get referred to as Dr?
Exactly. The people who insist on that are also the same people who are insecure, petty and jealous. I'm looking at you, Professor Umbridge (the one I know in real life).
I almost forgot to respond to your post R136, no one I assume is doubting how incredibly tough and how much work it is to get an MD. It absolutely is.
But this is the academy where the highest pursuit is generating new knowledge into the field which is the entire concept of the PhD. While there are MDs who conduct research, getting a MD degree is not based on research degree. You need to learn, you don't need to generate knowledge and publish a thesis.
This is not a slight on physicians, I have the highest respect for physicians how intelligent they are and how hard they have worked. It is not saying PhDs are "better", just that from the academic perspective the generation of knowledge is always seen as a higher pursuit than the learning of knowledge which is why the PhD is the highest degree the academy offers.
Of course these are ideals, the reality is nowadays non-funded PhDs that people are paying to get in a variety of questionable fields and for profit education have made a mockery of the system in many respects.
But it isn't a dick measuring contest, besides, well all recognize you are going to make way more money than we do ;).
My dad's an MD and doesn't insist on being called "Dr."
If someone is hurt, and calls out "we need a doctor!", they don't mean a Ph. D in special education.
Is he related to Eric Holder?
It isn't. But only because nobody respects real doctors anymore either.
Joey---where have you been? Have you been lost? We've been looking for you on the Blue thread.!
"turns out the doctor was a PHD in economics. He did suggest we boil lots of water and set up a trust fund for college."
Does anybody who sees a psychologist (PhD) call them Dr? I suppose some don't, but I feel much more comfortable calling mine Dr. He's providing me with necessary health care (like my MD) and I am his patient.
Calling him by his first name would feel odd, like I'm dealing with a friend and undermine (for me) the whole patient/doctor thing.
I refer to my clinical psychologist as Dr. ____, but to his face I call him by his first name
Addressing one's psychologist as Dr. _____ would undermine the intimacy required for effective treatment.
I think that it is pretentious and also incorrect for a JD to ask to called Dr.
Please, attorneys are doctors in the same way that a doctor of physical therapist or doctor of pharmacy is a doctor. It is a professional degree they have decided to call a doctoral degree.
You are conferred the Dr title by receiving a legitimate academic PhD or being a physician because by cultural precedent we are decided to call physicians doctors.
Awww, one of the benefits of living in the trailer park, none of us and no one we know have Ph.D's.
PhD is more than MD, because MD is a professional doctorate (as the JD), without defense of thesis and PHD is a research doctorate with defense of thesis. The United States is the only country in the whole world where doctor is used of synonim of physician, when, in reality, the degree of Doctor is the highest title conferred by the universities by the owners of that degree in any branch of human knowledge.All them deserve to be called Doctors. The tittle of Doctor of Civil Law (CCL) was created in 1223 by the University of Bologna and the tittle of MD was only created in 1787 by the University of Columbia
There are many people who teach in colleges/universities with a Ph.D, far fewer are full professors. In the college world, I call someone with full professor status, 'professor' and never been corrected (no one ever said, "call me Dr.)."
Anyone with a doctorate is a doctor and may be called as such if it feels appropriate. Some non-PhD doctorates are considered equal to a PhD, such as a doctorate of Education (EdD). There is also a law doctorate that is considered equal, but not the JD. JD is considered a professional doctorate. Other doctorates on the level of a JD include the MD, PsyD, DPT. These are considered by the Department of Education to be like advanced Masters degrees and are below the level of the PhD. But by definition merit the title of Dr. It is just that their expertise, as stated earlier, is in the application of knowledge and not the generation of knowledge.
[quote]Some non-PhD doctorates are considered equal to a PhD, such as a doctorate of Education (EdD)
The Doctorate of Education is a weird, honestly unnecessary degree. It started out kinda bullshit and in some programs it still is. There was a big movement to make it match up to a PhD...which if so people should just enroll in a PhD program.
The idea of the degree should just be a masters in education policy.
Some universities have already ceased awarding the degree.
Dr. is for physicians. Surgeons are Mr. as are Ph.Ds. PhDs are called Professor of they are that.
Varies by country and region. Asian PhDs insist on the Dr. prefix. Other countries consider it gauche.
[quote]Dr. is for physicians. Surgeons are Mr. as are Ph.Ds. PhDs are called Professor of they are that.
What nonsense. First of all physicians and surgeons have the same degree if you are unaware. Some physicians are just trained to practice surgery and some aren't
And doctors are only called "doctor" in a clinical setting because that is a common practice. They haven't actually earned a doctorate in any discipline. That is the domain of PhDs.
They underwent a rigorous professional degree that teaches them medicine, which is fine.
Harvard is doing away with the EdD. It always has been an embarrassment to the university.
The worst "fake" PhD is the one in social work (especially the retroactively-conferred PhDs given to former DSWs).
"Doctor" should be used only when it's not confusing to the listener.
My friend's daughter recently got her PhD in a biology field, and now refers to herself only as Dr.Lookatme: address labels, credit cads, magazine subscriptions, stationary, checks, everything. Good girl, and worked very hard for a long time, but comeonnnn. Even her wedding emcee announced the couple as Mr. and Dr. Lookatme.
Yes, R185, because, you idiot, that's who she is. She holds a Ph.D., just as I do.
In formal writing, such as a written invitation, she is "Doctor."
Interestingly enough, I have found over the years that the only people who begrudge us the honorific are lawyers and those who were never able to complete their Ph.D. coursework.
Lawyers have doctorate degrees and should be addressed as Dr.
So are EdD's one of those money-making degrees for universities? And/or is it looked down upon?
I work at a certain Los Angeles university and I was thinking of applying to the EdD program. I admit, I don't have strong feelings either way about the field, but the tuition would come at a great discount so I may regret not taking advantage of that benefit. Is this a stupid reason for entering a doctoral program?
You are a moron, R187, and probably a lawyer too.
The JD is not a terminal degree; it is a professional degree and therefore not entitled to the honorific "doctor."
In fact, in my state, should a lawyer without a Ph.D. refer to him or herself as such, the Bar will get involved and punish the offending lawyer in a splendidly embarrassing manner.
I teach at Vandy R188, and yes, those of us there do indeed look down on those who hold an Ed.D.
For christ's sake, just put on your big girl panties and get a Ph.D.
Be prepared to work those panties off though.
Once universities started "upgrading" former lesser degrees to PhDs without any additional work and for cash, the PhD lost its luster.
Yeah, I'm looking at you. Columbia.
A Medical Degree is a professional degree, but receives the address of Dr. Lawyers are addressed as doctors in Latin countries. Terminal degrees yield terminal careers x 2.
Technically lawyers are "doctors" as they hold a juris doctor" degree. In this country I know of no lawyers. In Europe and Latin America, a lawyer is referred to as a "Doctor". So it's cultural.
It does get annoying in certain settings when the PHD's insist on being called doctors, especially in a non-profit volunteer setting where a group of professionals are all volunteering but it is only the PHd's who are title conscious.
And don't get me started on the chiropractors....
I thought PhDs only referred to themselves as doctors in a strictly academic setting.
Only idiots run around insisting on the Dr. Too many Phds now. Comical unless you are a medical doctor.
Academic setting and for restaurant reservations.
Pretentious unless in a professional setting
That's absurd reasoning R196. Doctor is from the latin for teacher, it is a honorific title meant for PhDs moreso than physicians. In a lot of countries the degree for physicians is only a bachelors degree because really that is all it is. Regardless NO ONE should asked to be called Doctor outside of official professional settings or correspondence. Anyone that needs that title is a tool.
Any formal setting. If Mr or Ms is not your honorific, you shouldn't be expected to hold your tongue by someone who believes they are paying your respect with an honorific.
If you have to ask for an honorific, then it's pretentious.
I actually do prefer to be introduced as "Dr.", I save lives...on the radio!
The idea of referring to a lawyer as a doctor is an absurd practice, they don't even have the terminal degree in their field which is a doctor of judicial science. Really it should only be PhDs and thanks to cultural convention MDs/DOs thats it and only in a formal setting.
DL misogyny at work, from a thread here today:
"shut up dumb frau cunt"
This is how you respond when people point out your sexism and misogyny.