Yes, I know, I know, he refuses to acknowledge that he''s gay and is obviously in deep religion-driven denial. I''m watching a documentary about his downfall and his rise, and how his family reacted. I have to say that his family seems really great and have stood by him at the worst moment of his life, and their lives. The kids seem very open minded, and a couple of the kinda-cute sons actually ping. Would the family be as supportive if he did come out and say he''s gay? Who knows? But they could easily have bailed on him after he brought them shame and caused them to lose their church and friends. %0D\
He''s obviously still a very troubled guy, but the family doesn''t come off as anywhere near the judgmental fundies you''d expect, given the world in which they were raised. JMO. Maybe my view is somewhat subjective, given that I''m gay and from a similarly religious environment. I know how difficult it is to deal with one''s homosexuality amid that type of environment.
If you are talking about the HBO documentary, I got the impression that the wife still doesn''t get it.
No, there''s something on TLC right now which I don''t think is the HBO doc. Came upon it while channel surfing. They just showed a clip from his Joy Behar appearance, on which she called him on his claim that homosexuality is either a personal flaw or a sin. He loses points with me on that. Yeah, the wife is very sad. I can''t tell if she''s in denial because she sincerely loves him or because she''s terrified of being left alone. Ted and the wife are being shown counseling couples in trouble as part of their new church, which is just surreal to me. Again, it''s the kids that I have to give credit too. Despite his many demons, he seems to have raised some decent, tolerant kids.
Pelosi''s daughter did a doc on him a few years ago. Well done.
i think their former church owed them money or witheld property (a house, maybe, that they had lived in?). maybe she''s waiting on another payday to serve him with papers. he could make a comeback. then the money will come rolling back in. better to divorce a rich man with no pre-nup than a poor man.
I just can''t waste my time with offensive, delusional, dime a dozen, religious sickies!
They are professional evangelists and go where the money is.
"the family doesn''t come off as anywhere near the judgmental fundies you''d expect, given the world in which they were raised."%0D\
Remember that their fundie world tells wives and children to submit to the authority of their husband or father, no matter how badly he behaves.
[quote]Remember that their fundie world tells wives and children to submit to the authority of their husband or father, no matter how badly he behaves.\
Exactly - and also, he is their father. They want to believe him. They love him. \
No, really, they are just acting. They are a ''family'' business.
The whole family is so accustomed to living in a state of deep denial that they don''t know any other way to be. %0D\
If Ted came out, I think it would turn their world upside down.
Ted and his wife are not simply delusional about Ted not be gay any longer. They are liars.
Emotional Compartmentalization. It''s like Tetris for your brain.
I think I understand. \
We''re not fundies, but my mom caught me (18-yrs) and another guy. Later, I tried to tell her I was gay. She got upset and told my father. Before I knew it, my entire family flipped out. At the time, I wasn''t ready to face the music, so I acted confused, as if it were a one-time event. Miraculously, everything went back to normal, because living a lie is so much easier than facing the truth.
He''s a liar and a scam artist. He''s also a meal ticket so his wife and kids will stick with him as long as the money keeps rolling in.
No doubt, Teddy is more careful about the tricks he picks up these days.
Did anyone watch the family on Wife Swap with Nick Nolte and his wife last night? I had similar impressions about them.
Before I say anything about the family, though, I have to say that I have never seen Haggard on video or heard his voice. I've only seen his picture and read about him here and other websites. That said, I was not prepared for just how much he pings! Jesus, Joseph and MARY!!!
The famiy does seem sweet. And Ted does, too. And boy, does he look like he's trying hard, like his brain and psyche are working overtime at maintaining and keeping it together. I've not sure how else to describe it. He really wants to be seen as a good person and tries so hard and looks perplexed, hurt and gets a touch defensive if the feedback isn't positive.
The man [italic]needs[/italic] approval and [italic]needs[/italic] to be liked. He's also very invested in having a loving family unit and when there's minor conflict it seems to perplex him. His daughter felt that he spent so much time on his ministry that the family lost out on having their father around. She wanted more time with dad. Ted really couldn't get it. A bit whiny, but he wasn't totally averse to suggestion.
The boys were a bit of a harder read. They're very protective of the father. When the daughter made her suggestion, one in particular bristled and got testy.
And the wife, Gayle? Until I had finally seen Ted in action, I wasn't sure what to expect, but after seeing her, they're just two peas in a pod. She's very sweet, very docile, almost deer in headlights sometimes, looks fragile and clueless beyond human comprehension. Ted screams "I am gay, Gay, GAY! I don't understand how someone's denial can be so profound. I do question her ability to survive in the world on her own. Same about Ted.
Sure - they're not judgmental NOW - they sure as hell were before though. They put a lot of people through a lot of pain with their hellfire rhetoric before the scandal.
Now we're supposed to feel bad because they're on the other side.
Sorry - they don't get any brownie points from me.
R16, I watched Ted Haggard on Celebrity Wife Swap last night too. I really agree with your observations about Haggard and his family. (Not that it matters in our discussion, but just fyi, it was Gary Busey, not Nick Nolte though I can see the resemblance and why you would confuse the two.)
Ted pings yes and he and his wife do seem genuinely trying to listen and accept others. But, unfortunately even though they seem more socially/equality advanced than most churchies/fundies, they say they support civil unions for gays, but not same-sex marriage. I guess that is better than most fundies though and I couldn't help but like them as people on the show.
I really love this Celebrity Wife Swap and even watched the Tracey Gold/Carnie Wilson episode on Monday night.
R17 Yes Ted Haggard did "put people through a lot of pain" but he does seem genuine in his apology for it and is very candid about the scandal and the pain he caused as well as the whole hipocracy (sp) of it all.
I really see your point R17 about how Ted Haggard hurt us by all the "hellfire" damnation stuff he preached about gays when there he was seeing a gay rent boy on the side etc. I'm angry about it too. But yeah, he does seem genuinely sorry so I forgive. Life's too short to hold grudges against people I don't even actually know.
R14 has it right - liar, scam artist - but he's their meal ticket.
[quote]he does seem genuinely sorry
Of course he does. It's what he wants stupid people to think and they buy it. Just as he pretended to be straight when he ranted against gays from the pulpit of his mega-church while getting fucked by a rentboi. He did seem genuinely straight. That's what he wanted people to think. It's an act.
I've got a fabulous bridge to sell you, R18. No doubt you'll find that it's a great bargain cuz I'm so "honestly sincere"!!!!
I've been strangely obsessed with Haggard since I saw Pelosi's docu. I hate this man. He has done so much damage to gay people and refuses to acknowledge responsibility for it and refuses to acknowledge the hypocrisy of his actions.
He is absolutely desperate to crawl back to public life. He knows how rediculous it sounds for him to spew his hate speech now in light of the scandal he created 5 years ago. So of course he changes his tune and even goes so far as to try and back peddle on previous statements and actions he's taken.
Here's a great example from his own website where he tries to explain why people consider him a hate preacher. Absolutely fascinating that he tries to absolve himself of responsibility of the efforts he made to curb gay rights in CO and tries to downplay his national role in the evangelical movement.
A horrible model for a gay man!!! thanks a lot ted!!
The youngest son who looks kind of albino with bright yellow hair is mentally and physically handicapped.
The two oldest sons are grown men and were not shown on Celebrity Wife Swap. (one is a preacher)
Their 19 yr old son was shown as was their 30 yr daughter plus Jonathan, the handicapped son.
Ted Haggard's face looks like the grand canyon full of very deep crevices - as if pain is all over his face. Perhaps the deep crevices ar from the harsh mountain high sun of Colorado.
Oh please..it's ridiculous NOT rediculous
There is an article cited to at Ted Haggard's wikipedia entry stating he came out as bisexual in Feb. 2011.
(it's footnote #4 which you can click on for the full article)
OP, I saw the same thing, and I saw a sick, controlling pair of parents using religion to weld the bonds of an untenable match back together in order to justify themselves. The kids were typically hurt, confused, trusting and needy. The son jumping on his sister for a perceived complaint - and the fact that she was 30 (she's 31 now) and still begging for Daddy time made it all the sadder.
Their religion is nasty. They're nasty. He has admitted to being bisexual and still dances about the Devil being behind his past - thanks a lot, asshole. He talks out of both sides of his twisted mouth. Mom is a judgmental perfectionist Church Lady who would drive me crazy in a minute.
Open your eyes and see how much misery they are still causing by pretending that if they act like Saints they will purge the past. The past offers a guide to truths they cannot face, because these religionists are afraid of the simple truths of life.
What is the name of the Pelosi documentary?
Well everyone makes some good points here, that's for sure. What I thought was interesting on Celebrity Wife Swap, is that one of the Haggard sons, not the tall blond one, did speak out on the show to say that not only did his dad's scandal hurt the family and him etc. but that he was "angry" at the "deception" by his father with the attitude of "who wouldn't be" -- so yeah, he's right.
I like him. He comes across as a genuinely nice person who regrets the pain he's caused. And seems to love his family very much, and they him.
I feel sorry for the Haggard kids. Their parents are "sweet" but they are also liars, including to themselves.
Ted is a raging, two-faced narcissist.
Haven't his children gone through enough without him putting them on a cheesy reality show just so he can get the attention he craves?
And "this is our special needs child" on a reality show smacks of self-congratulation.
[quote]I like him. He comes across as a genuinely nice person who regrets the pain he's caused.
Just like that guy on California's death row for killing his wife while claiming he just went fishing on Christmas Day. He comes across as a genuinely nice person.
R16, wasn't it Gary Busey on Wife Swap and not Nick Nolte?
Ted Haggard's five 'kids' are all grown adults, except for the handicapped son, Jonathan, who is about 16.
His other four kids are age 30 (daughter) and three sons age 19 and two in their late 20's or early 30's.
The kids shown on Celebrity Wife Swap were daughter age 30 and son age 19.
The handicapped kid was just shown very very briefly and was never talked to and he did not speak on camera. We barely saw him.
The poster who says Ted is the kids meal ticket is not really correct since all the kids are grown adults except for the 16 yr old handicapped kid.
R29, he can be nice, have regrets and love his family and still be the self-serving hypocrite he is, who continues to foster a twisted, homophobic message rooted in a deluded reading of the Christian tradition, rebuilding his "career" at the expense of the family he fucked over once before in spectacular fashion. He still claims, you know, that a gay hustler who provided him with the drugs he demanded was Satan in action in his life.
But, hey, after all, he's a just a former big-time evangelical who wants to have his name out there and make a grand show of it all.
R29, what kind of decent minister with a sense of love, discretion and Christian humility would insist on going on "Wife Swap" for money to pop his family into your little idiot box? I'll tell you - NO kind.
Has it really come to the point that people take it for granted that it is normal to go on television and have their personal and family life displayed in a fictional rendition edited by strangers (You don't get editorial control.) for purposes of trashy excitement and dumb-audience building?
Talk about a debased notion of "family values" all around.
But you like him, R29. You wuv the story. How about your feelings about the Bachelor? Who do you think the Mystery Woman is and is that blonde really a lesbian? She seems so nice and I'll bet you like her, too. I know I do.
The name of the show alone shows that Haggard has no sense in his hunger for attention.
I thought the producers were funny in how they showed the other couple's passionate kiss, followed by the Haggards' chaste, closed-mouth peck on the lips.
Yes, Gary Busey, not Nick Nolte! Thanks for pointing it out. They've both had their drug pasts, but Nolte [italic]has[/italic] to a bit less eccentric.
[quote]but that he was "angry" at the "deception" by his father with the attitude of "who wouldn't be" -- so yeah, he's right.
I must have missed this part. I don't remember it. I wonder if any of the kids think their dad is gay. Surely, they can't be as clueless as their mom...
[quote]I wonder if any of the kids think their dad is gay. Surely, they can't be as clueless as their mom...
Why not? They've had the Fundie lies drummed into them throughout their entire lives. Living on top of daddy's mega-church didn't allow for very much outside influence. It will take them a few decades to catch up. No doubt they were home schooled.
OP needs to learn how to spot a sociopath.
R38 - Sociopaths aren't as dumb as Ted Haggard.
Ted said he is bisexual in February 2011.
See article at Footnote #4 in the wikipedia entry for Ted Haggard.
Ted is going to hell just like all the other queers.
R39, dumb? Do you realize how much money Haggard has made over the years from playing the con man? Even since his outing?
I liked them too. I feel like anytime you are being honest and owning up to your past, there is hope. Remember Ted has come out as bisexual and he is for civil unions. For someone like him these things are a good start. One thing I hate about liberals, I think we get offended and give up too easy. These people are ripe for someone to come in and guide them, but liberals always want to run, that is why others groups can come in and mold people.
I LOVED LOVED LOVED Christy. I just wanted to hug and hold her. She should be the one preaching.
[quote]However, in a classic example of the younger generation "getting" this issue where their elders don't, Haggard's daughter Christy caught my attention during the panel when she piped up at one point and said:
And one more thing. We were more judgmental than we are now, and people were hurt by us. And I know that a lot of people deserve a very sincere apology from our family because we are all the way we are for a reason. And the way I interpret scripture is so different from how other people do. So people do have the right — of course, we all do — to make their own decisions and be the people who they see themselves as being without any fear from how other people perceive them. That’s really important.
I was so struck by Ms. Haggard's words that I tracked her down after the panel to follow up. Asked how she reads scripture where it concerns gay people, Ms. Haggard said:
It tells me that everyone deserves love and that everyone deserves respect and that God is a huge advocate of free choice, of free will. He always wanted humankind to do what they wanted. He always gave us choice, from the beginning, from the Garden of Eden; he wanted us to choose what was right for us, what was wrong. And, you know, we deal with the consequences of whatever we choose, regardless. That’s how life works. And so, you know, each man and woman for themselves will see.
Asked whether gay people deserve all civil rights including marriage, Ms. Haggard said:
I believe every human being should live and work under the exact same rights. As a human being. Everyone should have the freedom to live the lives they believe are right.
Now that's a religious point of view I can get along with.
Why did the poor guy have to go on Wife Swap. I guess nothing could ever rehabilitate his image.
I guess you noticed the great christians were unable to forgive him or believe that their god could forgive him...fucking assholes, one and all.
You wrote, "Yes, I know, I know, he refuses to acknowledge that he's gay and is obviously in deep religion-driven denial."
Your assumption is so ridiculous. Just because he had sex with a man numerous times does not make him gay. He could be bi-sexual. Or he simply enjoyed sex with another man as a way to release/vent stress.
People in power and in the public spotlight do stupid things all the time.
I paraphrase what I read Ted Haggard saying once, but I think it's a reasonable statement; "Heterosexual people in a marriage may see other attractive people of the opposite sex, but that doesn't mean they should have sex with other people outside their marriage. I may have sexual urges towards other men/women, but I need to restrain that and honor the woman I married and still love."
Thirteen months and a week late, Ozy. But, thanks. Really.
So two years after he comes out, Jesus helps him stay in the closet. Hell of a guy, that Jesus.
The daughter sounds okay but she was never a powerful religious leader in America. Ted Haggard was and he used that position to persecute LGBT people. Fuck him. He's sorry he got caught.
[quote]Fuck him. He's sorry he got caught.
I agree that he's sorry he got caught. When it comes to "Fuck him," that's something he's probably dreaming about right now.
Ted Haggard is as straight as George Rekers, Bishop Eddie Long, Aaron Schock, and Larry Craig.
He's not gay, he just likes having sex with men.
It is amazing that their wives believe this shit.
At least Jim McGreevey was honest sexually.
[quote]At least Jim McGreevey was honest sexually.
Jim McGreevey would still be in the closet if his ex-bf hadn't threatened to out him. The ex-governor doesn't have an honest bone in his body. He's a fake and fraud!
[quote]Ted Haggard is as straight as George Rekers, Bishop Eddie Long, Aaron Schock, and Larry Craig.
Add Lindsey Graham to that list.
r53, but he came out as gay. He divorced his wife. None of this Haggard namby pamby.
He may have been a fake and a fraud but he didn't mince words once he was outed.
We gave him a pass because of it.
But Larry Craig never fessed up to the tricks he used to bring home with him when the wifey was away.
I'll admit that I find him quite attractive.
[quote]but he came out as gay.
Stop with the baloney. He did not come out willingly. He was forced out and that's the ONLY reason he came out.
On the afternoon of August 12, 2004, faced with threats from Golan Cipel's lawyer Allen Lowy that Cipel would file a sexual harassment lawsuit against McGreevey in Mercer County Court, the governor knew that his closet was crashing down and he would be dragged out into a public scandal beyond his control.
In order to give his own spin to the situation he called a press conference where he proclaimed, "My truth is that I am a gay American."
It was a memorable quote, for several reasons, one being that he was a crook and truth was not part of his dealings as a government official. It was also memorable because the quote was forced by the actions of a former member of the Israel Defense Force against a sitting U.S. state governor.
There was no "truth" or "honesty" involved in McGreevey's reasons for departing his closet so please don't hold him up as some paragon of virtue for the gay community. He was and is scum!
Stop the McGreevey hating in a Haggard thread.
He was outed and dealt with it.
Haggard remains in denial.
Since there weren't dozens of men claiming to have had sex with Haggard, he managed to go back into his closet and his wife went along with it so that he could earn a living by running another church as a family man. No sense in divorcing a guy who doesn't have a job.
McGreevey was such a slut that he couldn't rebuild his closet so he moved in with a rich daddy and pretended he was going to become an Episcopal priest. Apparently that church didn't want an internationally-known slut in their ranks and told him to take a hike.
Haggard's wife probably keeps him on a short rope so he doesn't go shopping for rentboys again.
Without his wife standing by him, those people in their church wouldn't be putting money in the collection baskets on Sunday. Only Fundies are stupid enough to believe that he's an ex-gay.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
We are switching to the new platform for The DataLounge this weekend. All of our mobile users have been using it for over a week and all first time users have been using it for about a month - which adds up to well over one million users. So we're ready to end this phase of the testing and move everybody to the new site. (more)
And yes, we've changed the look and some of how it operates.
Yes, we know you just *hate* it in well in advance.
Yes, we know we suck.
Yes, we are the biggest suckers that ever sucked.
But it was time for a change and with the huge shift to mobile it was long overdue. We've taken this opportunity not only to update the look but also make major changes under the hood (or "bonnet" if you're either British or pretentious or both). And we have to prepare for 2016 - a presidential election year where we can normally expect to see a 60% jump in traffic (yes, we've seen 5 presidential elections so far…Christ we're old).
The site has a bunch - nay, plethora - of new features which will make the site more usable: better search, the ability to ignore posters and threads, see link previews, to pick up a thread where you left off, spam and malware filtering and more.
If you want you can go explore and see for yourself, Click here.
And while running the tests we've noticed two interesting reactions to the new system - people are spending more time on the site and more people that come stay around longer and look at more stuff. Both good things. Yay!
Possibly we've not slain all the dragons and there will be issues that come up during the switchover. There's a help button in the lower right hand corner of the page which you can use to send us bug reports.
Please include as much information about the hardware (PC, Mac, Tablet, Phone etc), operating system (Windows, Mac OS, Android, iOS etc) and browser (Chrome, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer etc) that you are using as possible to help us replicate and fix the problem.
Please note that complaints about colors, fonts, icons and the like are not "bugs" - they are design choices that we've made and we expect one or two cases of world-class bitching. But they won't actually cause headaches, scurvy, heart attacks, Restless Leg Syndrome, Morgellon's Disease or the vapors (but have your smelling salts at hand just in case).
Talking to DataLounge servers. Please wait a moment...